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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 2289 of 3959
02 March 2011 at 12:49am | IP Logged 
I have studied Russian and Bahasa this evening, and I have also found time to indicate in my Romanian Teora dictionary which verbs on e- have a suffix and which haven't got one - I have explained my reasons for this longterm project in an earlier post.

However I think I'll quote something from an article in today's Jyllandspost about the fragile position of 'small' languages at the Danish universities:

Universitet freder 20 små sprogfag.
Københavns universitet opgiver omstridt plan om at lukke 20 små sprogfag som selvstændige fag. Efter massiv kritik nedlægges kun hollandsk som selvstændigt fag. Danske unge kan i fremtiden alligevel læse italiensk, russisk, græsk eller arabisk på Københavns universitet".

(The University preserves 20 small language departments.Copenhagen University abandons a controversial plan about closing down 20 small languages as separate disciplines. After massive criticism is only Dutch dropped as a separate subject. Danish youth can in the future still study Italian, Russian, Greek or Arabic at the University of Copenhagen)


Og så er alle glade? Næ, for det holder nok kun til næste sparerunde. Faktum er at sproguddannelserne er alvorligt i fare ved alle danske skoler og læreanstalter, fordi mange danskere kan tale rimeligt godt engelsk og tror at den hellige grav hermed er vel forvaret. Vel er den ej. Med færre studerende bliver der færre tilbud om kurser, og så bliver sprogfagene endnu mindre attraktive for de unge. Og tilsidst kan vi ende i en situation, hvor der kun undervises i engelsk, mens alle andre sprog må læres ved selvstudium af de få der kan huske at verden omfatter andet end X-factor og Hollywood.

And then everybody is happy or what? Not at all, because the cease-fire probably only lasts till the next wawe of budget cuts. The fact is that the language education at all Danish schools and universities is in deep trouble because many Danes speak reasonable good English and believe that this is enough. With fewer students there will be fewer courses, and then the language studies will become even less attractive for the youngsters. And the final result may be that we end up in a situation where only English is taught in school, while every other language on the planet will be reduced to something that those few who remember that the world is more than X factor and Hollywood will have to learn by home study.

O tempora, o mores! We ought to educate more people in 'small' languages like Italian, Russian, Greek and Arabic, and instead we make it more difficult to study them.



Edited by Iversen on 02 March 2011 at 1:08am

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Iversen
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 Message 2290 of 3959
04 March 2011 at 12:54am | IP Logged 
ESP: Mi ricevis hodiaŭ la konfirmon de mia partopreno en la internacia kongreso en Kopenhago en Julio - kompreneble skribita en Esperanto. Mi demandas min, ĉu ili havas ankaŭ ĉambron por krokodiliĝo

LAT: Etiam indicem legi vocabularii Neolatinae D. Morganis. Sciis quomodo nominatur carrum ferreum supermercati ad usu emptorium? Chiromaxium! "Department store" pantopolium est, et "shopping center" emporium aut vicus tabernarum. Vocabula ex auctoribus de classiciis usque ad erudites recentes quam Holberg et Gauss proveniunt, sed etiam circumlocationes adsunt, id quod mihi suspiciace paruit. Num vere "garage" quam "receptaculum curruum automatoariorum" appellaretur an Neolatinisti indigeni existerent qui vitam suam latine sermone agere deberent? Forsitan potius "stabulum autocineticum"? Cur non "autostabulum"? Nihilominus intendo vocabularium memoriae meae mandare:

muscipula - mousetrap - muscipula
tabula fluctivaga - surfboard - tabula fluctivaga
laterculus - candy bar - laterculus
clibanus microcymaticus - microwawe oven - clibanus microcymaticus
acus tuta - safety pin - acus tuta
sirpiculus purgamentarius - waste basket - sirpiculus purgamentarius
chartophylacium - briefcase - chartophylacium

Cum vivere poterimus non sapiendi "boarding pass" "scidula aeronplani conscendendi" esse?

I have received the confirmation of my participation in the Esperanto congress in Copenhagen in July, so now I have to study. I wonder whether they have got a room for 'crocodiling', i.e. for speaking any other language than Esperanto and your native language?

Besides I have read (and partly copied) a Neolatin minidictionary, and I intend to learn most of the words. How can you live without knowing that a "stewardess" is a "hospita aëronaturica", or that a guard dog is a "canis vigilax" (cave canem!)? Some of the circumlocations look too contrived and to long for practical use - modern native Latinists would certainly find a way to shorten them - but the list is based on some solid research in sources reaching from the Romans to learned people living as late as the 18. century. And there are words and expressions even for fairly new contraptions like a space shuttle: "astronavis alata". Or a zipper: "clausura labilis (denticulata)".


Edited by Iversen on 04 March 2011 at 1:01am

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Fasulye
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 Message 2291 of 3959
04 March 2011 at 6:46am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I have received the confirmation of my participation in the Esperanto congress in Copenhagen in July, so now I have to study. I wonder whether they have got a room for 'crocodiling', i.e. for speaking any other language than Esperanto and your native language?


ESP: Mi ankoraux ne ricevis la konfirmleteron "Dua Bulteno" en mia posxtkesto. Gxi devas alveni en unu de la venontaj tagoj. Venontan merkredon mi sola renkontigxos la esperantistinon kiu kunvogjagxos kun mi al la Universala Kongreso. La aliaj membroj de nia Düsseldorfa rondo definitive ne vojagxos tien. Mi volas kun sxi priparoli la mendon de nia hotelo. Fakte estas tri hoteloj, kiuj principe tauxgos por ni.

Vi mencias la tielnomatan "Aligatorejo". Laux la rakontoj de mia nederlanda amiko, kiu jam multfoje partoprenis en Universalaj Kongresoj en multaj landoj, tio ne ekzistas dum la Universala Kongreso. Tio estas ankaux por mi bedauxrinde. Sed vi povas ja kun aliaj kongresanoj spontane aligatori aux kajmani dum la kongreso.

Fasulye



Edited by Fasulye on 04 March 2011 at 6:54am

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Iversen
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 Message 2292 of 3959
05 March 2011 at 2:40pm | IP Logged 
ESP: Mi nek ricevis "Dua Bulteno" en mia helikapostskatolo (por leterpoŝto). Mi ricevis konfirmon retpoŝtan kun promeso ke ĝi alirus.

ENG: I have spent some time today making a video about my first interrail tour in 1972 in six languages - and with the usual amount of terrible errors.

Right now I'm listening to a video, where Syzygycc is telling about a collegue who had learnt a lot of languages by writing stories in those languages. Just before that I listened to another video where Mike Campbell (Glossika) discussed methods to avoid language confusion. But I'll soon have to return to my studies of non-English languages.

Edited by Iversen on 05 March 2011 at 4:11pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2293 of 3959
06 March 2011 at 2:42pm | IP Logged 
SP: Anoche leí, entre otras cosas, gran parte de una revista "Ecos", publicado en Alemania para asistir a los alemanos que estudian el español con una selección de artículos que están en consonancia con el contenido de otros almacenes generales. Hay por ejemplo un artículo sobre el guacamole mexicano, algo acerca de una Eva Longoria, sobre los vinos españoles y algo sobre un pueblo isolado de habla alemana en el Perú, Pozuzo. Además hay información sobre pruebas de español en Alemania y ciertos artículos se proporcionan con un glosario.

RU: Я живу в квартире, и мой сосед наверху или соседа на снизу или горизонтальной сосед разбудил меня в 4 ночи с музыкой и криками. Я воспользовался возможностью, чтобы прочитать в учебнике, который я взял из библиотеки: "Свидание в Петербурге". Тексты настолько легкамы, чтобы я почти не нужно искать слова, и это очень хорошо, потому что у книги нет списков слов для каждой уроки, есть только глоссарии в конце книги. И спользовать словарь не практично, когда вы читаете в своей постели.

GER: Heute habe ich deutsches Fern geguckt. Auf NDR gab es eine Sendung "Buten un Binnen", - nicht auf Platt wie man vielleicht erwarten könnte, aber auf Hochdeutsch. Dort gab es z.B. eine Diskussion mit Peter Kruse, einem Internet-Experte von Bremen, der etwas über Facebook und andere 'soziale' Dienste gesagt hat. Und als Exempel hat er den unglückselige von Guttenberg benutzt - anscheinend haben 500.000 Deutschen sich für sein Verbleib as Verteidigungsminister gestimmt. Leider ist es laut Peter Kruse ganz unmöglich zu wissen, ob sie es tatsächlich meinen oder sich nur ironisch geäußert haben durch durch einen unverbindlichen Tastendruck. Meine Güte, wie kann man mit solche Versuchspersonen Wissenschaft treiben?

PLATT: Achterna geef't op NDR utnamswies een Frühschoppen-Programm op platt as in de gode ölle Doge mit 'Talk op Platt', utstrahlt vun de stadt 'M' (Emden). Hier hett een Kunstsammler sien Sammeln as Stichting openmakt, un wenn ok düt steed een bietje afsiets liggt kommen apendor vele gäste daarut. Butendem... mien Familie en ek warr sien Oosterferie im gebied vun Lübeck spennen. Warr ek dort wat Platt hören? Ne, ek denk nich... Ek heb nooit in Holsteen Platt höört, blots "moin".

ENG: Right now I'm watching some Anglophone weirdos invent the mother of all mousetraps.

Yesterday I read several things, including a German magazine in Spanish called "Ecos" (6,50 €). It has ordinary articles such as those about guacamole, the Museo Júrasico of La Rasa de San Telmo in Asturias (which I immediately have put on my 'to see' list), ballet troups in Havana and violence against women. But some article have a wordlist attached, and there is a section about Spanish language test in Germany.

Last night around 4 o'clock I woke up because of noise from one of my upper, lower or same-level neighbours - it was hard to determine the source, and evil drunkards can pop up everywhere. I grabbed my earplugs and my bedside headphones and a random VHS tape and a Russian textbook which I have borrowed at the local library. It is useful as good night reading because it is easy and boring - I have only seen a couple of words in the first half of book which I didn't know beforehand. And that's good because there aren't wordlists at each lesson, but only one at the end of book. And consulting a dictionary while reading in your bed is somewhat complicated.

Today I have - among other activities such as wordlist making in Bahasa Indonesia with words from my Singaporean booklets - watched German TV. First a program in High German with a name in Low German (Buten un binnen), where an internet Expert was asked about the role of the social services on the internet (obviously inspired by the recent turmoil in the Arabian world). He mentioned the former German Defence minister von Guttenberg (mentioned earlier in this thread). It appears that 500.000 Germans have expressed their support to him, and the remark of the day was that this acknowledged internet expert didn't know any scientific method to ascertain whether those 500.000 Germans actually meant it or just pressed the button for fun.

After that a Low German program with a High German name - Frühschoppen (I have no idea what that would be in Platt). Such programs are rare nowadays, and this one was a welcome return to the good ol' days of "Talk op Platt". Well actually several old presenters from that program were present here, but the main story was one about a new Art museum somewhere in the countryside near Emden. Amazingly a reasonable number of visitors brave the complications of the local landscape and find the place, where they can listen to tour guides speaking alternatively Low and High German. The paintings actually looked nice!! - probably because they have been collected by an art-loving private citizen and not some mainstream jerk with an education.


Edited by Iversen on 06 March 2011 at 2:59pm

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oz-hestekræfte
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 Message 2294 of 3959
07 March 2011 at 6:06am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
oz-hestekræfte wrote:
Jeg gad skrive noget dansk så spørger jeg et spørgesmål: Hvorfor skrev du "just"?


Tractor has already has answered Oz_hestekræfter's question, but let me elaborate. The word "just" looks like a modern loanword from English, but it is more likely an old loan from Low German (cfr. also "juist" in Dutch) - and ultimately it goes back to Latin "iustus".

1) "Just" in Danish can be used with a temporal meaning: "just a moment" ago: "jeg har just set en ged" (I have just seen a goat). It sounds quite oldfashioned when used in this way - and that's exactly how and why I used the word in my sentence on the preceding page: "Og så har jeg just opdaget adskillige tosprogede irsk-danske tekster" = "And just a moment ago I discovered a number of bilngual Irish-Danish texts".

2) It can also be used with the meaning "exactly": "Og det er just derfor jeg bruger ordet" = "And that's exactly why I use the word". This use is somewhat more common, but still something you use to add an archaique touch to your language.

3) Sometimes you use it to add emphasis to an explanation: 1) the word sounds oldfashioned + 2) I like using oldfashioned words = conclusion "det er just derfor jeg brugte ordet". As a derivation from this you can also use it as a one-word answer with the slightly sarcastic meaning "yes (and congratulations for having found that out)".

By the way: "gad" (infinitive = 'at gide') is also an interesting word. In Icelandic and (presumably) Old Norse: it meant 'to be able to' and is/was constructed with a past participle: "Ég get gert það" = "Jeg kan gøre det" = "I can do it". In Danish this meaning is lost, and instead the meaning of the word changed to "to want sth" = "jeg gad vidst" = hyperliterally "I wanted known" = "I would like to know". And this has developed into 'to feel like doing something' (or not): "Jeg gider ikke" = "I couldn't be bothered". And the modern Danish construction has an infinitive and not a participle: "jeg gad vide, om ...". Another example: "jeg gider ikke tage til Nordpolen" = "I can't be bothered to go to the North Pole".


Thanks for the breakdown of the word, very useful. It seems that the Danish just's usages are quite in line with the English just's.

Yep, "at gide" is a danish verb I really like. The first time I heard a native (my cousin) use the word in conversation it was quite funny and so it has become I word I like using.
It was while the family were in Australia on holiday. Everyone was discussing various sightseeing possibilities when someone mentioned visiting an old pioneer town. "Jeg gider ikke se den gamle by" was his remark, as it became apparent that he might have to take his mother there. I laughed and my brother asked me what he said. I told him and my brother also laughed and said "I don't blame you mate!"
One other usage of "at gide" is the asking softly of someone to do something. (Colloquial?)
Gider du lige luk døren = something like how I might say in English: "Do you wanna just shut that door?"
It's technically asking if they want to/feel like it, but really it is just a request to do the task.
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Iversen
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 Message 2295 of 3959
07 March 2011 at 9:27am | IP Logged 
oz-hestekræfte wrote:
One other usage of "at gide" is the asking softly of someone to do something. (Colloquial?)
Gider du lige luk døren = something like how I might say in English: "Do you wanna just shut that door?"
It's technically asking if they want to/feel like it, but really it is just a request to do the task.


Colloquial yes, but extremely common. The only thing I would like to add is that this seemingly polite usage is more than a request - it is a direct order, and it is not particularly polite!

Gider du lige tage fødderne ned af sædet?
Would you please take your feet down from the seat?

The same meaning could be expressed through a direct order:
Se så at få de fødder ned af sædet!!

And how did this happen: well, if you ask somebody whether they "gider" do something, you implicitely suggest that they are lazy and disorganized, and you have to ask them to get anything done. It is a slightly different matter if you say about yourself that you "ikke gider" do something, but even this is impolite because you effectively refuse to do something which somebody has asked (or might ask) you to do.


Edited by Iversen on 07 March 2011 at 9:27am

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Iversen
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 Message 2296 of 3959
08 March 2011 at 1:16am | IP Logged 
It is late now, so I'll be brief.

I have spent most of the evening on doing wordlists according the the three-column model which I have described several times here. Suffice to say that I did around 60 words in Modern Greek, 30 in Bahasa, 60 in Russian and no less than 120 in Icelandic - as a compensation for having neglected it somewhat lately. However I also found time to watch around one half hour of Catalan from an old VHS tape I made while I still had a Romance cable package that included TVC.


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