Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

  Tags: Multilingual
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
3959 messages over 495 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 311 ... 494 495 Next >>
Cabaire
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3783 days ago

725 posts - 1351 votes 

 
 Message 2482 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged 
Quote:
Quod caesar Claudius de correctionibus orthographiae Latinae cogitaret


I find most interesting his halved h (Ⱶ) to indicate the vowel in words like lubet/libet or optumus/optimus.

Did he want to introduce only an etymological spelling to indicate, that a contemporary [ i] was in the time of early Latin an [ u].

Or is it an intermediate vowel sound between [ i] and [ u], different both from pure /i/ and /u/?

That could be the tongue-position of [ i] with lip-rounding, therefore [y].
Or the tongue-position of [ u] without lip-rounding, therefore [ɯ].

The Romans knew [y] from Greek words, the change to [ i] occured later in the Byzantine Empire. But I have never heard of misspellings like *"optymus". So maybe [ɯ] is right. But his halved-haitch was later sometimes (falsly) used to replace /y/ in Greek loan words.

So any thoghts?
1 person has voted this message useful



Cabaire
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3783 days ago

725 posts - 1351 votes 

 
 Message 2483 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 11:31am | IP Logged 
Heureka, I have found an answer: Look under the head word sonus medius.
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2484 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 12:24pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I spent some time this evening making a video (...)

Paranday wrote:
Thank you for this video, I enjoy these podcasts, and whenever my RSS reader signals a new one, I can't wait to find a quiet long moment where I can enjoy listening. I share your praise for these interviewers.


I followed the lead given by Cabaire, but ended up somewhere else, namely in an English introduction by Frances Lord to the socalled 'Roman' pronunciation, and here I found something about short (and unstressed) i/u:

The grammarians speak of the obscure sound of i and u, short and unaccented in the middle of a word; so that in a number of words i and u were written indifferently, even by classic writers, as optimus or optumus, maximus or maxumus. This is but a simple and natural thing. The same obscurity occurs often in English, as, for instance, in words ending in able or ible. How easy, for instance, to confuse the sound and spelling in such words as detestable and digestible.

[Serg. Explan. Art. Donat. Keil. v. II. p. 475.] Hae etiam duae i et u . . . interdum expressum suum sonum non habent: i, ut vir; u, ut optumus. Non enim possumus dicere vir producta i, nec optumus producta u; unde etiam mediae dic**tur. Et hoc in commune patiuntur inter se, et bene dixit Donatus has litteras in quibusdam dictionibus expressum suum sonum non habere. Hae etiam mediae dic**tur, quia quibusdam dictionibus expressum sonum non habent, . . . ut maxume pro maxime. . . . In quibusdam nominibus non certum exprimunt sonum; i, ut vir modo i opprimitur; u ut optumus modo u perdit sonum.


My uninformed guess is that u/i in these contexts had been reduced to something like an unclear schwa sound that floated around somewhere in the middle of mouth and was combined with a tendency to lip rounding, but not as much as in 'u'. Such midtongue vowels are extant as full vowels in several languages, even in stressed position, and I have long been wondering why words with 'y' in Danish, 'u' in French or 'ü' in German aren't written with ы in Russian, but (mostly) with ю, which suggests a totally different sound. *

PS: I also discovered that I have made a systematic mistake in mistake in my own Latin:

Primum est intellegendum discrimen inter vocabula 'pronuntiatio' et 'pronuntiatus' (postcl.) vel 'appellatio', quae inter se maxime differunt. Pronuntiatio est actus recte orationem habendae, orator qui optime dicit, pronuntiationem optimam adhibet; pronuntiatus et appellatio (Apud Quintilianum) significant modum pronuntiandi, ad sonos ipsos spectantes. (Vicipedia)

Or in English: "pronuntatio" means the act of pronouncing, and the true translation of 'pronunciation' is "pronuntiatus" or "appellatio". But the latter should in my opinion be used with restraint in Neolatin because it has several meanings, and 'pronunciation' is the meaning that is most likely to give confusion:

1. appeal (to higher authority)
2. name, term
3. noun
4. pronunciation
5. title, rank


* PS: I know that Danish y, French u and German ü aren't midtongue vowels. But ю would still be better than ю


Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 12:09am

1 person has voted this message useful





meramarina
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 4151 days ago

1341 posts - 2303 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: German, Italian, French
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2486 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged 
I should have clarified that this was a medical coding course. The certification is a valid, required professional credential, but there are a lot of scam courses that claim to train you for an easy, exciting way to make money now!

Actually the work is very complicated and difficult - you have to analyze medical records and then determine the correct code combination to describe the case for legal and payment purposes. You have to use two huge references ICD-9 (International Classification of Diseases) and CPT (Current Procedural Terminology) each about a thousand pages long, and some codes exclude others, some include others, some combinations are even illegal! I had a university degree and a few years of experience and was trying to convince this school that I could skip the basic beginner's coursework, such as learning that peri- means around, dermato- means skin, that kind of thing. I already knew morphology!

Now analyzing things and then tagging them with the correct combination - whoever would have thought I'd enjoy that! Actually I love that kind of work, playing with words and codes all day, getting them EXACTLY RIGHT (if possible!) and I hope somebody will hire me to do that. Not so easy lately!

It's an appealing profession if you like language and logic, even though it's not foreign language. You need to be able to handle Latin-based scientific terminology, of course.
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2487 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 5:18pm | IP Logged 
So essentially the prefix thing is just 0,000000001 % of the whole curriculum. But apparently an important economical factor for the school. Next invention might be that they demand 1000$ to teach you how to count.
1 person has voted this message useful





meramarina
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 4151 days ago

1341 posts - 2303 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: German, Italian, French
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2488 of 3959
23 June 2011 at 5:34pm | IP Logged 
Exactly. But health information management is a good field to be in right now and worth doing if you can get the right training and experience. But I'm hoping to get another technical editing/writing position instead, because I've found that it is very unhealthy to hang around with doctors! Any way I get to play with words is good, though.


1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 3959 messages over 495 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.5313 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2019 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.