Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

  Tags: Multilingual
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
3959 messages over 495 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 488 ... 494 495 Next >>


Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3897 of 3959
15 June 2015 at 10:33am | IP Logged 
Saturday I did my backups of material from this thread back to the end of March - right now HTLAL seems to be stable, but better safe than sorry. And yesterday I spent 4 hours walking round a lake. A serious language student would of cause be wearing a headphone in order to do some shadowing, but I just trotted happily away without any shred of remorse. But I also found time to do some studying.

BA I: Saya belajar halaman dari Wikipedia Indonesia tentang orang-orang Tana Toraja dan pemandangan wisata di daerah mereka. Banyak dari mereka yang saya tahu dari perjalanan saya ke Sulawesi beberapa tahun yang lalu - seperti patung nenek moyanga di atas batu dengan menghadap ke hamparan hijau dengan kerbau, salah satu gua dengan makam dan tulang, rumah-rumah Tongkonan - tapi saya tidak ingat megalit di Batu Tumonga. Di sisi lain, saya telah pasar kerbau Rantepao (kerbau merah muda yang paling mahal) dan pemakaman pembantaian kerbau. Kerbau hidup yang baik - tetapi bisa menyelesaikan dengan sangat cepat. Babi tidak begitu baik - ketika mereka diangkut, mereka terikat ketat bersama-sama dan menempatkan kaki di udara pada rak bagasi di sepeda tanpa suspensi.

In this article there was a faulty sentence in the original text, and Google translate is led horribly astray:

"Pada waktu-waktu tertentu pakaian dari mayat-mayat akan diganti dengan [....] melalui upacara Ma'Nene" (at certain times clothes of corpses will be-changed with [missing word or one 'dengan' too much] during the ceremony Ma'Nene)

Google T: "At certain times of the clothes the bodies will be replaced with a ceremony Ma'Nene"

Or in other words: at a certain point of the life cycle of the clothes you kick out the corpses of your deceased relatives and do a ceremony called Mother'HawaiiGoose instead. I actually thought the Torajas valued their ancestors too much for that kind of disrespectful treatment. Otherwise they wouldn't stage those elaborate funeral ceremonies or put statues of the dead ones up on shelves with a view to green fields full a buffaloes stoically awaiting the next funeral. The real deal is that during the Ma'Nene ceremony the dead are exhumed and given new clothes by their loving descendants.

Edited by Iversen on 15 June 2015 at 10:45am

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3898 of 3959
16 June 2015 at 4:07pm | IP Logged 
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours making two column repetitions of some old Greek wordlists - about 250 words or so. Most of the words were wellknown, although not necessarily among those I could remember without helhat thhep if awakened in the middle of the night and asked to speak Greek. But certain passages in the lists were harder to recall - and I suspect that I have been lax about my original repetitions with those senctions of the lists.

And then I also read some stuff about the Cretan city Iraklion. I got slightly microconfused when I read that its airport lies close to ancient Alicarnassos. But luckily this wasn't the 'real' Halikarnassos - the location of the Mausoleum of king Mausolos (near modern Bodrum in Turkey). But apparently there was/is a place called "(Nea) Alikarnassos" on Crete too.

My my, all the irrelevant information you can gather by studying Wikipedia articles... But at least my preconceptions concerning the location of the better known place governed by king Mausolos didn't need fixing.

Edited by Iversen on 16 June 2015 at 4:09pm

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3899 of 3959
17 June 2015 at 2:09pm | IP Logged 
Yesterday evening I...

GR: ... διάβασα για το Αρχαιολογικό του Μουσείο Ηρακλείου στην ελληνικα. Αναρωτιέμαι πώς η τρέχουσα οικονομική κρίση στην Ελλάδα πλήττει τα μουσεία και άλλα τουριστικά αξιοθέατα. Μπορεί θα ήτανε εύκολοτερα να μειωθούν οι δαπάνες για τα μουσεία από τις συντάξεις, αλλά στη συνέχεια οι τουρίστες μπορούν να προσθέσουν λιγότερα χρήματα στην οικονομία.

BA I: ... mempelajari organisasi administratif daerah Tana Toraja di Sulawesi (itu tampaknya dibagi menjadi desa yang mengatur sendiri)

IC: ... ég las texta frá landbúnaði skóla, þar sem fjöldi umsókna hefur lækkað á síðasta ári.

SE: ... Читао сам о преласку на дигиталну телевизију и елиминацију аналогних сигнала у Суботица, Сомбору и Кикинди у Србији.

FR: Et pendant la nuit je me suis reveillé, et pour rendormir j'ai lu le chapitre avec les formes de la négation fléchie du finlandais de mon minuscule Assimil de Poche. Cette ruse a fonctionné à merveille - je me suis rendormi après très peu de pages.

These texts do have a bias towards social topics, but I have not overnight become politically correct (and if I ever drifted in that direction, a couple of hours with the kind of empty political twaddel we are experiencing these days due to the upcoming election would definitely cure me). So to point out that I still have some normal healthy interests left I would just like to add that I saw the reference to the Spinolophosaurus in Fasulye's log and immediately thought "shouldn't it be Spinosaurus"? But no, both names exist, and they refer to different critters. So I have spent quite some time reading about dinosaurs with different kinds of spines on their backs. The one named Spinosaurus was actually longer and heavier than both T Rex and Giganotosaurus, but contrary to them it lived in wetlands and ate fish for dinner, and to facilitate this activity it had a long crocodile-like head. However it wasn't a crocodile, and as some kind of compensation for this intrusion into croc territory by of croc-headed dinosaurs, the crocs invented longlegged galopping crocodiles (like the Pakasuchus and Kaprosuchus) and to boot one that walked on its hindlegs (Carnuflex carolinensis) - as far as i remember I have mentioned this last beast one earlier in this thread.


Edited by Iversen on 17 June 2015 at 3:39pm

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3900 of 3959
19 June 2015 at 2:42pm | IP Logged 
Yesterday it was election day here in Denmark, but I didn't watch Danish TV in the evening – I watched documentaries in English most of the time, including an intriguing program on the History Channel about the early history of China. According to the Chinese historian Sima Qian (who lived about 100 AD)everything started out with 'the five emperors', including a 'Yellow Emperor". His 8th great-grandson ('the great Yu') allegedly saved the area around the Yellow River from the effects of devastating deluges through as system of dikes and became emperor and founder of a dynasty called Xia, which is supposed to have been reigning from 2070 BC to 1600 BC. After the Xia came the Shang and later the Zhou dynasties, and writing (at first on tortoise shells) was invented. Consequently there are no written sources from the time of the Xia dynasty and their period has been seen as a halfway mythical.

However now a series of early civilisations in the area of central China have been documented through archeological excavations, and one of them fits the legends surrounding the Xia so well that it is likely to have been the 'real' Xia. Some of these early cultures had long ago produced small bronze objects, but the culture found near Erlitou was the first to make big ritual vessels (and maybe also bells) in bronze. Besides it existed during a period with much climatic trouble (documented by thick layers of sediment), but contrary to its predecessors and competitors this culture was based on five different crops which made it more resistant to changing climatic conditions, and even a palace with a basic layout reminiscent of those of all later imperial palaces has been found. The other cultures in the area have apparently not produced similar architecture. And do any of these things prove that the dynasty of state ruled from Erlitou was the legendary Xia dynasty from the annals? Of course not, since no one could write while it lasted. And there will of course always be sceptical archaeologists who refuse to consider anything that hasn't been documented by one of their own Western collegues in a peer-reviewed scientific magazine from either North America or Europe, but to me it seems that the burden of proof has been moved – now the question is whether any other culture than the one from Erlitou could have given rise to the descriptions of the Xia in the old annals. To my mind it fits the bill rather well..

And was this more interesting than watching the election programs on TV? Well, I think so. I might have switched to one of the Danish channels later, but I took a nap around 9 O'clock in the evening and didn't wake up until 2 O'clock in the night. Then I just checked who had won and spent the next couple of hours studying Polish – i.e. doing wordlists and studying my trusty old "Mowimo po Polsku" from 1979.


Edited by Iversen on 20 June 2015 at 8:54am

2 persons have voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3901 of 3959
20 June 2015 at 10:11am | IP Logged 
I had thought about going to New York and speak about the behaviours of the mighty Google Translate at the polyglot conference there, but that plan had to be abandoned. Instead I'll publish some of my notes in a thread here in HTLAL, called "The etology of Google Translate". Not all 'chapters' are ready yet, but they will follow as soon as possible. Feel free to comment or add your own examples.

Edited by Iversen on 20 June 2015 at 10:12am

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3902 of 3959
23 June 2015 at 8:12am | IP Logged 
You can may guess from the thread about Google Translate how I spent my weekend: googling, translating, looking through my bilingual printouts and writing a text with about 30000 characters (plus 3300 spaces), including the answer about English and its role as the intermediary stage. Maybe Google translate also uses direct connections between other languages - like searching for unknown word or word combinations in a language up in a related language. But so far I haven't seen any unequivocal proof that it does so. But thinking about this I realize that I only have given one example with an unknown word that simply passed untranslated through the system, namely Romanian "chip" ('face'). But I did give examples of the inverse phenomenon. namely proper names which GT shouldn't have tried to translate.

I got a number of responses, but the subject doesn't seem to have aroused too much interest. But I got a chance to formulate the things I otherwise would have said in New York, and now they are out of my system and I can start using those bilingual texts again without constantly thinking about ways the errors in them form patterns.

Yesterday evening I however looked through some more of the humanmade bilingual texts in my good old "Mowim po Polsku" (Polish -> English). It is supposed to be a text book meant for beginners, but it uses words and word forms which aren't even in my midsize Polish<->French dictionary (Oxford), and one of these caught my interest, namely the two instances of a verb weż / wezmę, which are translated as 'take'. Luckily my big fat Polish <--> German Pons quotes irregular forms, so that I could get back to the infinive form wziąć. This made me realize a lacune in my green sheets: I have made a sheet with the different verb classes, based on 1. & 2. person singular which should suffice to form the present of almost all Polish verbs. But I hadn't ever made a sheet with all the forms, including the past tense, conditional and analytic futures, and now I got it done - although probably not in its final form.

The problem (please forgive me for nor formulating this in Polish) is that Polish used an old active past particle with an -l as its simple preterit, just as the other Slavic languages do. Some of these, like Sorbian and the South Slavic languages have retained the finite form of the verb for 'to be' (in Polish "być"), but like Russian and several others Polish has dropped the auxiliary. But in contrast to these Polish has reintroduced the personal endings and attached them to the old participle and to the conditional, and to this last also the equivalent of Russian "бы" ('by'), but contrary to Russian in the form of a morpheme that comes before the personal endings.

Well, mostly it is like that, but sometimes both the personal endings and the 'by' leave the preterite and lodge themselves unto other words - and the "by" can even become independent and grab the personal ending.

For these studies I used Pons "Grammatik kurz und bündig" to give me an overview (with pedagogical and often inventive table layouts) and the thick "A grammar of contemporary Polish" by Oscar E. Swan to elaborate and supplement the short and concise explanations in Pons. Like some more details about those freeroaming endings (Swan pp 255), which obligatorily attaches themselves to some conjunctions and may do so to other words at the whim of the speaker:

kiedyś wróciła? = when+2p.sing return+past+feminine+sing ('when did you(female) return=?')
kiedy? = when
(ty)* wróciłaś wczoraj = (you) return+past+feminine+2p.sing yesterday
* optional

I don't know of any other Slavic language that has combined all these element in its past forms - and then still retain features that reminds us that these elements once belonged elsewhere. It is not unheard of to have such rebellious morphemes - think of the unaccented pronouns in Portuguese and the definite articles of the Scandinavian languages - but it greatly adds to the complexity of the tables to have them.

Edited by Iversen on 23 June 2015 at 8:07pm

1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2844 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 3903 of 3959
23 June 2015 at 12:26pm | IP Logged 
Actually in Czech when you use the past tense in 1st or 2nd person you still say jsem
mluvil
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3904 of 3959
23 June 2015 at 8:19pm | IP Logged 
Thanks to Tarvos for the hint about Czech - I haven't studied that language yet.

DK: Og så til en nyhed fra min hjemby Århus, hvor det splinternye kulturhus Dokk1 blev indviet sidste lørdag. "Dokk1" skal angiveligt udtales /dok ét/, men da jeg så det læste jeg det som "dokken", fordi det ligger ved havnen og lyder som den bestemt form af ordet dok. Jeg nævner det nye hus her fordi det rummer byens nye hovedbibliotek, men bygningen rummer også Europas angiveligt største automatiske parkeringsanlæg, verdens største rørklokke (7 meter høj - og den skal bimle hver gang der fødes en ny århusianer) og så skulle biblioteket for øvrigt også være Skandinaviens største offentlige bibliotek. Med alle udenværker har det kostet mere end 2 milliarder danske kroner (ca. 300.000 €), men det er naturligvis ikke alle pengene der er gået til biblioteket. Faktisk står der færre gammeldags papirbøger på hylderne end i det gamle bibliotek (resten er sendt ned i arkivet i kælderen). Til gengæld er der nu blevet plads til borgerservice, café, foredragssale, computere til fri anvendelse og masser af legepladser til børnene, og der bliver fra nu af åbent også på søndage. Jeg er mildt sagt ikke begejstret for at man har nedprioriteret bøgerne, men nu har jeg altså set vidunderet, og det er imponerende. Et ægte uforfalsket udtryk for århusiansk storhedsvanvid.


Edited by Iversen on 23 June 2015 at 8:31pm



1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 3959 messages over 495 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.6875 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2019 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.