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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 97 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 1:35am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
And two different groups of astronomers have independently of each other photographed a planet outside the solar system. As one of their collegues remarked: It's like the busses in London. You can wait for ages without seeing one, and then suddenly there are four in row...


You are writing about an exoplanet (= extrasolar planet) aren't you? If such a planet could already be photographed then it's a real sensation, because that would be for the first time ever. Could you please give me the Latin quote, so that I can check this news?

Edited by Fasulye on 17 December 2008 at 1:36am

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Iversen
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 Message 98 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 2:31am | IP Logged 
Yes, according to the article it is a real sensation. The direct link to the article in the "Ephemeride" is here, - in Latin of course. However there is a reference to an article in "Science", probably from around mid November.
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Fasulye
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 Message 99 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 2:06pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Yes, according to the article it is a real sensation. The direct link to the article in the "Ephemeride" - in Latin of course. However there is a reference to an article in "Science", probably from around mid November.


I have already printed the article written in Latin out and I am going to study the text by using my dictionary of Modern Latin to understand the text completely. My Latin is a bit rusty and not that fluent so I better use a dictionary.

The photo published in "Ephemeride" showing 3 exoplanets orbiting a distant star I estimate as a worldwide scientific sensation. So far it has never been possible to detect any exoplanets directly or to photograph them. So this will start a new era of exoplanets research. By the way, this article written in Latin refers to the article published in "Science" on 13 NOV 2008 with the title "Seeing exoplanets is believing".

So on Friday after work I will dive into the library to study the Latin text and on that evening I will show the photo of the distant star with the 3 exoplanets to the members of my astronomy club and I am very curious, to get to know, whether anyone in my club has a notion of this photo, because in "Sterne und Weltraum" it has not been published, as far as I could browse on their website. I don't really think that there are any members of my astronomy club who are readers of "Science". So there is a good chance that this photo is unknown in my club.

I will inform you what the reaction of my astronomy club is on this "breaking news".

By the way, I will really enjoy reading the article in Latin, because reading such a topic is much more fun than being forced to read such boring stuff as "De Bello Gallico" of Ceasar, which we had do at grammar school for almost a year.

Fasulye-Babylonia




Edited by Fasulye on 17 December 2008 at 2:34pm

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Iversen
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 Message 100 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 3:15pm | IP Logged 
GE: Fasulye: Ich bin sehr froh, daß du in meinem Log auch etwas brauchbares aus der Naturwissenschaft gefunden hat, - es soll sich ja nicht alles um Sprachenlehren und Literatur drehen (oder Historie). Wenn du irgendwelche Schwierichkeiten mit dem lateinischen Text hat, dann werde ich sehr gerne helfen. Ich habe übrigens während meine Schulzeit etwas ähnliches gefunden: das erste Foto von einem einzelnen Atom, mit ein sogenanntes "Felt-Ion-Mikroskop" gemacht. Meine Chemielehrerin glaubte mir erst gar nicht, aber ich wußte genau wo ich es gesehen hatte und konnte ihr den nächsten Tag das Buch mit dem Bild zeigen. Sie hat es dann an zwei ihrer Kollegen gezeigt, die auch nichts davon wußte. Triumph! Wie man sagt ...blinde Henne findet auch ein Korn.      

POR: Neste log você não pode ver tudo que faço. Por exemplo, não se ve muito sobre as horas onde escrevo listas de palavras ou leio gramáticas. Também as horas que gasto navegando na internet são difíceis de resumir. Uma boa técnica para encontrar material é esta: se configura o Google para pesquisar páginas numa determinada lingua, se coloca algumas palavras-chave ardilosas dentro dele e ve o que sai. Por exemplo, hoje tenho "Pedro II" e, como esperado, encontrado o artigo da Wikipedia sobre o imperador do Brasil durante 58 anos. As coisas que se pode ler aqui são interessantes e informativas, más são ainda mais interessantes os pequenos detalhes. Pedro foi separado do seu pai rei Pedro I, que teve que retornar a Europa sem o seu rapaz para salvar o trono de Portugal para a sua rapariga (é muito complicado!). Wikipedia cita algumas cartas de Pedro ao seu pai:

"Meu querido Pai e meu Senhor Tenho tantas saudades de Vossa Majestade Imperial e tanta pena de não beijar a mão. Quando me levantei e não achei Vossa Majestade Imperial e a Mamãe para lhe beijar a mão... "

Lendo isto eu não posso deixar de me perguntar se todas as pequenas crianças então tuve que beijar tanto as mãos dos seus pais? Ou apenas príncipes e princesas? Para saber isto dou a Google as palavras "beijar a mão" e "pais". A primeira descoberta foi esta frase: "Hugo Chàvez vem beijar a mão de Lula hoje". E agora vocês vêem o problema: não é a ideia que discutimos política aqui (e não intento fazê-lo). E debajo: "Como beijar a mão do Papa - Estrelando: Dona Marisa miué* do Lula" (num sitio abertamente cretino) - e não se pode discutir religião aqui. Além disso, não sei quem é Dona Marisa, e porque o papa não beija a sua mão. Além disso: neste momento eu ainda não sei se todas as crianças do inicio do 18. seculo beijavam as mãos dos seus pais todo dia. Sômente sei que Lula e o papa tem as mãos molhadas.

Queria assenhalar um articolo sobre a reforma da ortografia portuguesa (e brasileira):
http://michaelis.uol.com.br/novaortografia.html,
e outro mais breve aqui:
http://dricolopez.wordpress.com/2007/06/15/mudancas-na-ortog rafia-voces-veem-a-jiboia/ .

Por favor: alguem me pode dizer que coisa significa "miué" ??

--------------

I am very happy that I by my elucubrations in a Latin newspaper have been able to find something that Fasulye can show to her astronomy group - namely the first picture of a planet from outside the Solar system. This reminds me of an episode from my distant school years: my chemistry teacher told us that atoms were too small to bee photographed. I told her that I had seen a picture of one atom, and the next day I brought the book with the picture, which had been taken not with a light microscope, but with something called a Field Ion Microscope. Nowadays single atoms are being 'photographed' with instruments that are based on the socalled 'tunnel effect' - which roughly is the art of being found very far from where you were supposed to be in quantum mechanics - this of course applies to both elementary particles and socks.

After that I write something about looking things up in different languages through Google. In this case I looked up the emperor Pedro II of Brazil, but somehow the search diverged through something akin to the tunnel effect to the notion of kissing people's hands. Pedro's father had left him in Brazil because he had some troubles in Europe, Pedro so very much longed to kiss his parents hands (yuk!), Chavez from Venezuela came to Brazil to lick president Lula's hand, then somebody kissed the Pope's hand (no problem, he is used to it), and I have no idea what dona Marisa is doing - unless somebody tells me what 'miué' means in Brasilian Portuguese (maybe even who dona Marisa is?).

And finally I give a link to the great worldwide orthography reform of the Portuguese language. We have discussed it in a thread somewhere on this forum, but now you can se for yourself what it is all about.


Edited by Iversen on 17 December 2008 at 4:01pm

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Flarioca
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 Message 101 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 4:43pm | IP Logged 
Iversen

I would like to start by telling you that what I'm going to write in English on this post will probably be much more full of errors than your text in Portuguese. I'll only pinpoint some minor mistakes and give you my opinion about some of your questions. Of course, politics are not to be discussed here, to follow the rules!

Iversen wrote:

As coisas que se pode ler aqui são interessantes e informativas, más são ainda mais interessantes os pequenos detalhes.


Should be mas, without accent, especially because más (adjective, female, plural) means bad.

E.g.: Elas são más = They are evil. The word they here should refer to an exclusively feminine group, as you know. I was thinking to use some well known female names to improve the example, but that would bring us back to politics ...

Iversen wrote:

Lendo isto eu não posso deixar de me perguntar se todas as pequenas crianças então tuve que beijar tanto as mãos dos seus pais? Ou apenas príncipes e princesas?


The word tuve is Spanish, but should be tuvieron, corresponding the Portuguese tinham.

Yes, it was a very common practice. In Brazil, at least, it is called "tomar a benção". In some places in the interior of Brazil some older people still enjoy it.

Iversen wrote:

E debajo: "Como beijar a mão do Papa - Estrelando: Dona Marisa miué* do Lula" (num sitio abertamente cretino) - e não se pode discutir religião aqui. Além disso, não sei quem é Dona Marisa, e porque o papa não beija a sua mão.

Por favor: alguem me pode dizer que coisa significa "miué" ??


Again, debajo is Spanish, corresponding to abaixo.

The word muié is a brazilian (as far as I know) contracted, way too informal, often uneducated, form of mulher (which means wife in this context, for the non-Portuguese speakers). Dona Marisa is Lula's muié.

Iversen wrote:

Queria assenhalar um articolo sobre a reforma da ortográfica portuguesa (e brasileira):


This could be, among many possibilities, ressaltar um artigo.

We could discuss the "reforma ortográfica", but I'll just tell you now that I'm NOT going to follow many of its precepts.

Abraço.
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Jar-ptitsa
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 Message 102 of 3959
17 December 2008 at 7:13pm | IP Logged 
Iversen,

you must learn Syldavian!!!!!!!!
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Fasulye
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 Message 103 of 3959
18 December 2008 at 12:03am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
GE: Fasulye: Ich bin sehr froh, daß du in meinem Log auch etwas brauchbares aus der Naturwissenschaft gefunden hat, - es soll sich ja nicht alles um Sprachenlehren und Literatur drehen (oder Historie). Wenn du irgendwelche Schwierichkeiten mit dem lateinischen Text hat, dann werde ich sehr gerne helfen.


GE: Sprachen können sich ja auf unterschiedliche Fachgebiete beziehen. Traditionellerweise beziehen sich Sprachen immer auf die Literatur, nur ist es in meinem Falle so, dass das nicht meine Richtung ist. Ich hatte in der Schule darunter gelitten, dass der Sprachenunterricht immer so literaturbezogen war. Aus genau diesem Grunde hatte ich auch nach Klasse 12 das Schulfach "Deutsch" abgewählt, was zu einem Konflikt mit meinem Elternhaus führte. Als Schülerin hatten mich die Naturwissenschaften nicht interessiert, meine Interesse für die Astronomie ist erst vor 5 Jahren im fortgeschrittenen Erwachsenenalter entstanden und seitdem bin ich im Astronomieclub aktives Mitglied.


Mein Astronomieclub ist keine informelle Gruppe, sondern ein eingetragener Verein. (e.V.) Ich muss mich jetzt mit meinem astronomischen "Lateinstudium" sehr beeilen, denn ich habe mitten in der Arbeitswoche wenig Zeit und am FR Abend muss der Text über die fotographierten Exoplaneten so vorbereitet sein, dass ich inhaltlich sattelfest bin. Das ist ja eine äußerst spannende Geschichte!!! Ich hatte versucht, auch an den Referenzartikel in "Science" heranzukommen, aber auf deren Website muss man sich erst registrieren und einloggen und tralala, soviel Aufwand muss ja nicht sein, finde ich.

Edited by Fasulye on 18 December 2008 at 2:00am

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Iversen
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 Message 104 of 3959
18 December 2008 at 4:07am | IP Logged 
Jar-ptitsa wrote:
Iversen,
you must learn Syldavian!!!!!!!!


So far I have read the splendid article that dmg refers to in the thread about wusses, and I agree with the author Mark Rosenfelder that the language seems to be based on the dialect of Hergé's grandma, propped up with German grammar and words from Hungarian, Russian and other sources. But I prefer to learn complete and authentic languages, so if I wanted to learn something with a similar profile then I would go for Jiddisch (but even Jiddisch is not on my hit list right now - I'm busy with other projects). The only artificial language that I conceivably might want to learn is Esperanto, because it has such a large base of dedicated followers that it would be easy to find communication partners and study material. Sylvan, Klingon and the languages of Tolkien are outside my scope.

Thanks to Flarioca for pointing out my errors in the Portuguese passage I wrote yesterday. It is pretty clear that the worst of them are hispaniscisms, and I expect that kind of errors to slowly disappear as I learn more and more Portuguese (which may take years). But of course I will take be more suspicious of evil hispanicisms now that you have pointed out how many of those there are in such a short text.

When I write my log I look up things that I definitely don't know and I sometimes also try to hunt down good ways of expressing a more complicated idea. But that takes time from the more tedious error checking. However my purpose in writing these things is mainly to train writing in a natural way, and I think that writing a multilingual log is a good way to learn this in spite of the errors.

GE: Übersetzung (schnelle und schlechte!):
Die ersten Photos von extrasolaren Planeten.

Fast gleichzeitig haben zwei Astronomen-Gruppen gemeldet, daß sie die soweit man weiß ersten Fotos von extrasolaren Planeten gemacht haben, abgesehen von 'Wandersterne' [gemeint is wohl hier Kometen* und so was], das heißt - Planeten die nicht unsere Sonne umkreisen, sondern andere Sternen. Dies wird von der neuen Ausgabe des Zeitschriftes "Science" gemeldet [11/11-08].

Zwischen den Fotos gibt es auch eines von drei Planeten, die um einem Stern im Sternbild Pegasus kreisen. Anderswo hat man einen Planet fotographiert, der eine Stern in einer Entfernung von 25 Lichtjahren von der Sonne umkreist. Dies wird von dem Gelehrten als das bis jetzt kleinste und kälteste Objekt ausserhalb unseres Sonnensystems gesehen.
Bis jetzt hat man sich zur Existenz von Planeten um anderen Sternen geschlossen durch Swankungen im Licht der Muttersterne, wenn ein Planet direkt zwischen uns und die Sternscheibe passiert. Jetzt wo die ersten extrasolaren Planeten fotografiert geworden sind, wird es einfacher für den Astronomen sich ein Bild von ihrer chemischen Zusammensetzung und von ihrer Atmosphäre zu machen.
Daß es gleichzeitig zwei Forschungsgruppen mit wenigen Verbindungen - d.h. [eine Gruppe] von UCLA geleitet von Paul Kalas, die das Hubble Teleskop benutzt haben, und [eine] vom Herzberg Institut für Astrophysik unter Christian Marois, wo (?) kanadische Forscher die Keck und Gemini Teleskopen auf Hawaii benutzt haben, gelungen sei Fotos von extrasolaren Planeten zu machen, wird von Mark McCaughrean, Astrophysiker des Exeter Universitäts, mit diesen Worten kommentiert: "Es geschieht fast wie mit den Londoner Bussen: du kannst ein Jahrhundert [vergebens] warten und dann kommen gleich vier".

----

Übrigens wäre es sinnvoll auch zu erwähnen, das man nicht nur die Variationen im Lichtstärke durch Planetpassagen, sondern auch die durch Doppler-verursachten Farbunterschiede des Lichtes (die das Wackeln der Müttersterne wiederspiegeln) benutzt hat um extrasolaren Planeten aufzustöbern. Aber ich bin mir sicher, daß Fasulye so was einfaches bereits weiß.


* Fehlanzeige - Wandersterne sind Planeten, nicht Kometen

Edited by Iversen on 11 January 2009 at 7:56pm



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