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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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densou
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Italy
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Speaks: Italian*

 
 Message 1281 of 3959
07 September 2009 at 12:51am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
IT: Ora mi trovo a Vlorë, una citta albanese sul Mar Adriatico con tre linee di traghetti verso alcune/delle città Italiane e perciò anche con un flusso di turiste Italiane che non si trova nelle altre città albanesi. Il mio albergo si chiama Bologna, ho almeno due canali Italiani a mia disposizione e ho mangiato una pizza napoletana ed un cono gelato a tre gusti. Si, davvero si sente una influenza Italiana qui. Ma domani prenderò l'autobus verso la capitale Tirana, nella quale il mio club di viaggiatori 'De berejstes Klub' ha previsto un incontro, con un membro che attualmente vive lì come organizzatore ed ideatore principale. E con una partita di calcio tra l'Albania e la Danimarca come ragione ufficiale - sebbene personalmente non abbia tutte le intenzioni del mondo di assistirci. Il calcio non mi interessa del tutto.


Edited by densou on 07 September 2009 at 12:52am

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Iversen
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 Message 1283 of 3959
08 September 2009 at 12:59pm | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:
ALBANISCH
GER: Du bist gerade in Albanien und mir stellt sich jetzt die Frage, in welche Sprachgruppe Albanisch gehört und mit welchen Sprachen Albanisch verwandt ist. Oder ist es eine ganz isolierte Sprache wie Baskisch etwa? Das will ich eigentlich jetzt mal wissen... Albanisch ist keine slawische Sprache, soviel weiß ich schon.


GER: Albanisch ist tatsächlich eine indo-europäische Sprache, aber sie bildet wie Griechisch seine eigene Gruppe. So ich habe mich in der Tat innerhalb zwei Wochen mit vier verschiedene Indoeuropäische Sprachfamilien beschäftigen müssen. Ich habe auch gestern eine Mischung von Lehrbuch und Grammatik auf Deutsch gekauft für nur 800 leke (ungefähr 7 €). Und dazu gab es tatsächlich auch noch ein CD. Ich hätte lieber einen wahren Grammatik gekauft, aber für 800 leke ist dies ein durchaus guter Kauf.

Albanian is in fact an Indoeuropean language, but like Greek it has its own group (Basque, Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and Sami are the only non-Indoeuropean native languages in Europe). Yesterday I bought a combined textbook and grammar in German for only 800 leke (less than 7 €). I pure grammar had been better, but still it was a bargain even here in Albania.

Thanks for the corrections to Tommus and Densou. I think "touristical" is preferable to 'touristic' here because it adds a slightly ironic (or ironical?) twist to the activities in question. "Touristic" would be more neutral in tone, which is not what I intend.

IT: Dalle correzioni di Densou "prenderò"-->"prenderei" riguarda un vero sbaglio grammaticale, mentre il resto degli errori mostrano una certa mancanza di sensibilità alla idiomaticità* Italiana. Questo è serio, certo, ma spero che la comprensione delle frase generalmente non sia impossibile. Potrei aggiungere che l'italiano è una lingua molto utile qui in Albania, in particolare nelle città costiere. In questo momento mi trovo in Durres davanti a un computer con tastiera e menù Italiane in Internet Explorer.

*parola rara si, ma ho controllato che esiste

--

The corrections by Densou of my last Italian rant includes one real morphological error (3. p in stead of 1. p. in the future of the verb prendere), whereas the rest are mostly proposals for more idiomatic ways of saying things in Italian. And that's of course welcome (but I'm slightly worried that my Italian has become so rusty just months after my last visit there). Here in Albania a bit of Italian is very useful, in particular in the coastal towns. Right now I'm sitting in Durrës, which has 3 or 4 ferrylines to Italy, including a 3 hour hydrofoil trip to Bari, so it is quite logical that Italian has got a strong position here. In fact I'm sitting right now at a computer with an Italian keyboard and Italian menus in Internet Explorer. And I haven't found the letter ë yet, so I have snatched it from Google search, which is in Albanian.

********/%/&$=%%((/!!!!!************......

And while I was writing this the internet center lost all its connections, so now I'm sitting in another internet place near the first one... I hope this one will keep running at least until I have finished writing for today.

Did I mention that we had a minor earthquake yesterday? - but during the night so few people noticed it. I did, because I was reading. And I knew what it was because I have tried it before in Chile and in Guatemala. At 5.4 on the Richter scale and an epicenter 100 km away it was not a problem at all, just a reminder of the things that can happen if it is your unlucky day.

Back to language learning ...

FR: L'italien n'est pas la seule langue qu'on peut encontrer ici a Durrës. J'ai du parler allemand à l'homme qui m'a vendu un cornet de glace, et j'ai parlé français à la dame qui m'a vendu mon billet au Musée Archéeologique ici - qui est d'ailleurs un musée tres beau et très bien organisé. Elle m'a montré qu'il avait des textes non seulement en Albanais, mais souvent aussi en Anglais. Je l'ai remerciée en disant que dans les lieux où ces textes manquaient il était souvent possible de saisir le sens des phrases parce que beaucoup des termes qu'on utilise pour les objets arquéologiques ont des noms internationaux. Devinez ce qu'est un "vazo arkaike" (surtout quand il se trouve une vase archaique en céramique devant vous..).

D'ailleurs cet ordinateur a un clavier français, ce qui est très pratique pour moi en ce moment, - mais il doit être un problem pour les albanais et pour leurs visiteurs qu'on ne sait jamais en avance quel clavier on va trouver quand on entre dans un café internet ici. Les menus sont pourtant en Anglais ici.

Edited by Iversen on 08 September 2009 at 2:25pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1284 of 3959
08 September 2009 at 5:21pm | IP Logged 
IT: Grazie per scivere questo rapporto lungo del caffe internet. Tutte le esperienze dei tuoi viaggi sono interessante da leggere. Non ho mai visto un testo scritto nell' albanese! Adesso ho letto molto dei tuoi posts molto vecchi. Anche ho letto molto di fanatic e parecchi posts del nostro Adminstratore. E interessante per mi questa storia del nostro forum.

In questo weekend vogliamo visitare il planetario a Bochum, ci sara una conferenza sui asteroidi e meteoriti. Dopo il prossimo weekend ho l'intenzione di scrivere un' articolo su questa visita nel planetario per la revista del mio club d'astronomia. Questo sara il mio lavoro per lunedi e martedi. Dopo aver scritto l' articolo vorrei continuare il mio lavoro del forum...

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 08 September 2009 at 5:43pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1285 of 3959
11 September 2009 at 5:21pm | IP Logged 
Ich bin jetzt in Dänemark, aber habe genug Zeit in Hamburg gehabt einserseits den Zoologischen Garten zu sehen, andererseits auch den großen Thalia Buchladen zu vergolden, - ich habe so viele Bücher gekauft daß sie mir eine Stofftüte geschenkt haben um das alles zu tragen. Darünter gibt es einige Plattdeutsche Kleinbücher, etliche Kauderwälsch-Bände (derunter Finnish, Korsisch, Tagalog und 'Heilige Sprachen', d.h. Altägyptisch, Sanskrit und Latein), große Norwegische und Isländische Wörterbucher von Pons und Asterix auf Platt und Latein. Dazu kommen die Bänder die ich auf dem Balkanhalbinsel gekauft haben: zweisprachige Albanische Reiseführer und die Bücher die ich früher erwähnt habe, - aber nicht meine Rumänische Rumänische Grammatik (von Dumitru Irimia), - der Buch war schwer und groß, aber ich mußte feststellen daß es inhaltlich zu sehr auf Form und Methodik fixiert und zu wenig konkret und konzis war (vielleicht auch zu redselig). Soweit ich weiß gibt es eine Rumänische Grammatik vom Verlag Routledge, und die werde ich mich über das Internet besorgen. Ich möchte auch eine gute Albanische Grammatik kaufen, weil "Albanisch als Fremdsprache" eher ein klassisches Lehrbuch ist als eine Mischung von Lehrbuch/Grammatik, wie ich zuerst habe geglaubt. Ich habe es trotzdem behalten, bis ich etwas besseres finde.

-----

I am now back in Denmark, but I hat time for a short stop-over in Hamburg, where I visited the Zoo and the Thalia Bookstore, where I bought so many books that they gave me a bag of canvas to carry the loot. There where a few big dictionaries, a long list au Kauderwälsch booklets (those with the hyperliteral translations) and - last, but not least - one Asterix in Low German and another in Latin. I read both in the train Northwards from Hamburg.

On the other hand I have said goodbye to my Romanian grammar in Romanian, which wasn't concise and userfriendly enough to compensate for its weight and space requirements. On the other hand I have kept my "Albanisch als Fremdsprache" even though it is more like a standard textbook than the mixture of textbook and grammar I had hoped for. The problem is that I think there is a good Romanian grammar from Routledge, but I'm not quite sure what there is available for Albanian. For Serbian I have been very satisfied with the 2€ dictionary I bought in Belgrade, - when I have used it on concrete texts it has generally had the words I searched for, in spite of its limited size, and that's a very good sign. In the airport of Tirana (named after Mother Theresa) I also bought the Italian version of Focus, and luckily there is not a single common article in the Italian and the Greek version from September.

I will have little time for language studies the next week or more because I have to organize my photos and write my travelogue and update the homepage of my travelclub AND write/compile the guide to language learning I have promised to publicize on this forum. But I have learnt a good deal while travelling, - for instance that Albanian is not that hard to tackle. The word order is not totally chaotic and there is a fair number of loan words from other languages, so when I have a good bilingual text - which is the case with the guidebooks I bought down there - then it is very easy to correlate the words and groupe them. Add a little grammar and the skeleton is there, but I still miss a decent vocabulary of 15-20.000 words, and more importantly: I have not learnt enough to start speaking or even thinking it.



Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2009 at 1:42pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1286 of 3959
11 September 2009 at 5:46pm | IP Logged 
To show Fasulye some genuine Albanian, here is an excerpt from the guide about Korça in Albania with the original translation made hyperliteral (it was already fairly close) - plus a few comments:

Pozite gjeografike
Position geographical

Rrethi i Korçës shrtihet në pësën Juglindore të Shquipërisë, në Krahinën Malore Qëndrore.
District of Korça lies in Eastern South of Albania, in region-mountain(eous) Central
    
(NB: the name of the town is Korçë, the -a is a postclitic definite article, which is used here because it is a female town name, - and ë is a schwa sound, mostly omitted in the final position of a word in common talk)

Përfshin tre qytete: Korça, qendër e rrethit, Bilishti e Maliqi dhe 27 komuna.
(it) contains three towns: Korça, center of district, Bilishti + Maliqi and 27 communes.

(q is pronounced as kj. I don't know why there is and 'e' and not a 'dhe' between Bilishti and Maliqi).

Qyteti i Korçës është një nga qytet kryesore të Shqipërisë.
TownThe of Korça is on of (from) town(S) mostimportant of Albania.


I hope that will be enough to give an impression of how easy it is to match the English text with the Albanian original, and even though Albanian has flexions according to my textbook it is not totally out of reach. I tried the same technique on the English/Hungarian air magazine of Maleev on my way home, and it was a totally different ballgame. I would need a dictionary to match those two languages.

If Albania wasn't so small and if it hadn't isolated itself so completely throughout the cold war we might not have seen Albanian as a particularly difficult language. But now that I have returned home I may not have the time to continue my studies of this language, which is somewhat irritating. After all it represents a whole new family for me within the Indoeuropean languages.

Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2009 at 1:41pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1287 of 3959
13 September 2009 at 5:25pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Ich bin jetzt in Dänemark, aber habe genug Zeit in Hamburg gehabt einserseits den Zoologischen Garten zu sehen, andererseits auch den großen Thalia Buchladen zu vergolden, - ich habe so viele Bücher gekauft daß sie mir eine Stofftüte geschenkt haben um das alles zu tragen. Darünter gibt es einige Plattdeutsche Kleibücher, etliche Kauderwälsch-Bände (derunter Finnish, Korsisch, Tagalog und 'Heilige Sprachen', d.h. Altägyptisch, Sanskrit und Latein), große Norwegische und Isländische Wörterbucher und Asterix auf Platt und Latein. Dazu kommen die Bänder die ich auf dem Balkanhalbinsel gekauft haben: zweisprachige Albanische Reiseführer und die Bücher die ich früher erwähnt habe, - aber nicht meine Rumänische Rumänische Graqmmatik (von Dumitru Irimia), - der Buch war schwer und groß, aber ich mußte feststellen daß es inhaltlich zu sehr auf Form un Methodik und zu wenig konkret und konzis war (vielleicht auch zu redselig). Soweit ich weiß gibt es eine Rumänische Grammatik vom Verlag Routledge, und die werde ich mich über das Internet besorgen. Ich möchte auch eine gute Albanische Grammatik kaufen, weil "Albanisch als Fremdsprache" ist eher ein klassisches Lehrbuch als ein fifty-fifty Lehrbuch/Grammatik, wie ich zuerst habe geglaubt. Ich habe es trotzdem behalten, bis ich etwas besseres finde.


GER: Die Buchhandlung Thalia kenne ich, soetwas haben wir bei uns auch in der Stadt. Interessante Bücher hast du dir gekauft! Asterix auf Latein ist in Deutschland bei Schülern sehr beliebt. Aus der Kauderwälsch-Serie habe ich auch ein paar: Katalanisch, Litauisch und Persisch (hatte Kontakt zu Leuten aus Afghanistan).

Danke für die albanischen Hyperliterals. Die Sprache ist mir völlig ungewohnt, aber vielleicht ist sie gar nicht so kompliziert.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 13 September 2009 at 5:26pm

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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 1288 of 3959
13 September 2009 at 9:53pm | IP Logged 
I'm now at long last sitting at my own computer. But my most urgent project right now is to write that guide to language learning, and I'll of course write it in English. So I won't have much time for other languages the next couple of days. However I have just added the summary for August at page 160, and that will be my main contribution for today.

Edited by Iversen on 13 September 2009 at 10:41pm



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