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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 2409 of 3959
23 May 2011 at 1:51pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
ES: Mi ankaŭ studis iujn esperanton tekstojn (ĉar mi scias ke mi devus povi paroli i kompreni ĝin en Julio). Laŭ la unua teksto "Lingvistoj antaŭ nelonge identigis lingvon, la 'koro', en fora regiono en la nordoriento de Barato,"... Barato? Barato. Kial ke Barato ('India') akiris la nomon 'Barato' en Esperanto?


ESP: Mi volas al vi klarigi la uzadon de la vortoj "Barato" kaj "Baratio". Pro tio mi rigardis en mian "Plena Ilustrita Vortaro", kiu estas la plej granda monolingva Esperanto-vortaro. Laux tiu vortaro:

Barato = Regxo de Hindujo kies idoj estas prikantitaj en la Mahabarato.

Baratio/Baratujo = Hindia nomo de la Hindia Respubliko.

Oni prefere ne uzu la nomon "Hindio/Hindujo", cxar tiu-cxi vorto ne estas neuxtrala. Gxi rilatas al la hinda lingvo kaj religio, kiu nur estas unu lingvo kaj unu religio en tiu-cxi multetna lando. Pro tio la plejmulto de la Baratanoj preferas paroli pri "Baratujo/Baratio".

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 23 May 2011 at 1:52pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2410 of 3959
23 May 2011 at 4:47pm | IP Logged 
Bone, Mahabarato ---> Barat(i)o ili Baratujo.

Mi scivolas kial Baratujo ("India") ne akiris la nomo "Indio" en Esperanto. Estas kiel stranga kiel vokanto de Germanio "Allemagne" en Franca (post longa malaperinta tribo, kiu ne eĉ loĝis en Germanio).

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Iversen
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 Message 2411 of 3959
25 May 2011 at 12:55am | IP Logged 
SP: Pasé la noche tratando la postales que los miembros durante el último mes han envíado a mi club de viajes - y estas personas viajan como locos! Pero he también podido escuchar la television española de TVE, por exemplo una emision sobre el 'malo ojo' con algunas damas de la region de Toledo. Ayer he escuchado programas de Sevilla y de algunas lugares en el mundo donde viven españoles, peró tambien un clip con el hijo de doña Thyssen que ha interpuso una demanda en contra de su madre para obtener dos pinturas, que según él le pertenece... y algo sobre la situación politica en España, donde Zapatero no se presentará otra vez, y donde hay manifestaciones contra el desempleo y los malos tiempos.

No necesito ninguna explicación especial para escuchar al español, pero en realidad hay una razón excelente: he comprado boletos aereos para un viaje a Madrid, Palma de Mallorca, Barcelona y Girona. Y qué se pude ver en este momento: un volcán islandés arroja cenizas, en los ferrocarriles españoles hay huelgas en junio y hay protestas en las calles. Carrrrramba!

It: Più tarde quest'anno farei un viaggio in Italia: da Dinamarka a Roma, da Roma a Sardegna e tornarei a casa via Berlino. Ho prodotto alcuni estratti da un sito sardo, ma non ci è ancora stato nessun tempo per leggerli. Bisogno anche fare in modo che il mio livello di esperanto non sia troppo miserabile al Congresso nel mese di luglio.

I did some Polish wordlists (around 60 words) at the start of this evening, but after that I have been occupied with the postcards that the travelomanics of my travel clubs have sent home since Easter - I put them on our homepage once every month. So I have spent most of the evening trying to read and copy the content. However I have also been able to watch TV, including Spanish TV from TVE. Yesterday evening I also watched some Spanish TV. You don't need a specific reason for listening to Spanish TV, but I do have one: I have bought flight tickets for a trip to Spain: from home to Madrid, from Madrid to Palma de Mallorca, from Mallorca to Barcelona and back home through Girona. And now there is once again an ash-spewing Icelandic volcano, there are railway strikes in June and other kinds of strikes and demonstrations all over Spain because of the economy, and prime minister Zapatero is so sick and tired of it all that he won't be a candidate at the next elections. So yes, I do have a reason for watching news from Spain.

Later in 2011 I'll do a short trip to Italy: first to Roma, and from there to Sardegna and back home through Berlin. I have made some prints from a Sardic homepage, but there has simply not been time to read the stuff yet. And then the Esperanto world congress in July will also be a contraint on the direction of my language studies, because I have to train esperanto before that event.

Finally there will be one or two trips abroad late in 2011, but I have not yet made any plans for these. I could go to some Greek Island to try out my Dimothikean skills, but I would also like to make one more trip outside Europe. The world is full of places which I feel I ought to visit, and two new countries in one year (Burkina Faso and Mali) is not nearly enough.

Edited by Iversen on 08 January 2014 at 3:40pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2412 of 3959
26 May 2011 at 1:13am | IP Logged 
IT: Ritornando dal mio lavoro ho finalmente trovato il tempo per leggere i testi sardi ai quali ho fatto allusione in un messaggio precedente. La fonte di questi testi è il sito Sardegnacultura.it, e più particolarmente un testo sulla lingua sarda commune. Ci sono almeno cinque dialetti di questa lingua sulla isola Sardegna (oltre ad un dialetto catalano con molti 'u'), il che non è pratico per coloro che desiderano imparare la lingua, né per coloro che vogliono pubblicare riviste e altri nativi. Dunque l'amministrazione locale ha sostenuto il lavoro di definizione di uno standard comune di ortografia sarda. O, come dice il testo:

Limba sarda comuna
Sa Giunta de sa Regione Autònoma de sa Sardigna at costituidu una Commissione de espertos cun s'incàrrigu de istèrrere un'inchesta pro connòschere s'istadu de sa limba sarda e formulare un'istandard linguìsticu de impreare pro s'iscritura ufitziale de argunos atos. (...) Àteru còmpitu de sa Commissione at a èssere su de definire normas ortogràficas comunas pro totu sas variedades linguìsticas in usu in su territòriu regionale chi agiudent a promòvere sa difusione de istrumentos informàticos pro favorire s'impreu curretu de sa limba sarda.


Come si vede non e difficile leggere il sardo scritto, ed io avrei forse in alcuni mesi - almeno in teoria - la possibilità di ascoltare un poco la vera lingua sarda durante la mia visita imminente all'isola. Ma c'è anche il rischio che gli abitanti parlino solamento Italiano nella compagnia die un straniero - come in Germania, dove è quasi impossibile udire il 'platt'.

L'ortografia proposta è descritta chiaramente sul sitio, e si può anche vedere tabelle morfologiche. Ma spesso l'ortografia uffiziale nascosta differenze considerabile tra i dialetti:   

Pro cussu, in sa Limba Sarda Comuna, s'at a iscrìere putzu, lassende sa possibilidade de iscrìere, in sa variedade locale, finas putu, puthu, pussu, pùciu,in cunforma a sa pronùntzia de cumpetèntzia locale."

Sembra che sia necessario essere molto diplomatico quando si attuerà delle riforme linguistiche! Ma il sardo sta più forte davanti all'influenza Italiana, se si può trovare una formula per una scrittura comune sarda.

-----

My Wednesday bus-back-from-my-job reading was the printout from a Sardic site called www.sardegnacultura.it. If you just open the site at its main main it looks distinctly Italian, but in the upper left part of the screen there is an entrance to the most interesting part, namely the pages that describe and comment on the language situation of the island in the venerable language of the island, Sardic. Actually this represents the situation fairly well: when I visit the island later this year I'm fairly sure that I only will hear Standard Italian, just as I only hear high German spoken in Northern Germany and Langue d'oil in Southern France when I arrive as a casual tourist. But through the internet I can at least read some stuff in the language.

It seems that the local administration for some time has supported a group of scholars who have tried to formulate a common orthography which can be used by speakers of all the five main dialects of Sardic (there are also some Catalan speakers down there,who write their dialect with a lot of u's, but they are outside this discussion). In the two papers I quote above there is an interesting and informative description of the linguistical features this group have had to deal with, plus some information about the legal status of minority languages and dialects in Italy. From this information it is fairly obvious that Italian is taking over, but while the Sardic boat is sinking like Titanic it seems that there is quite a lot of bickering between the local language communities, so - as you can read in quote number two above - the commission (or whatever it is) recommends one common solution - but they acknowledge that those few stubborn Sardinians who write Sardic at all will continue to write in their own dialects. Somehow I recognize this situation from Low German...


Edited by Iversen on 26 May 2011 at 9:58am

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Iversen
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 Message 2414 of 3959
27 May 2011 at 11:28am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
No necesito ninguna explicación especial para escuchar al español, pero en realidad hay una razón excelente: he comprado boletos aereos para un viaje a Madrid, Palma de Mallorca, Barcelona y Girona.

Kuikentje wrote:

¡¡¡Que bien!!! Son lugares muy bonitos creo.
¡¡Hay caramba!! La situación económica en España es muy mala, por ejemplo el 45 por ciento de la gente menos de 25 años está en paro. En Wallonia también constituye un gran problema. ¿Has probado zumo de remolacha? A mi me gusta mucho.


SP: ¿He bebido zumo de remolacha? Creo que no, pero esto una cosa que puedo hacer quando llegaré en España. Y se puede aprender como hacerlo aqui.

Übrigens habe ich auch selber was gemacht, nämlich ein ganzes Video über die deutsche Bücherserie Kauderwelsch.

Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 12:33am

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Fasulye
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 Message 2415 of 3959
27 May 2011 at 7:03pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Übrigens habe ich auch selber was gemacht, nämlich ein ganzes Video über die deutsche Bücherserie Kauderwelsch.


Ich habe mir das Kauderwelsch Video heute angeschaut. Erstaunlich wie VIELE Bücher du aus dieser Serie inzwischen hast. Das Dänische habe ich auch. Ich benutze diese Kauderwelsch Bücher nur zur allgemeinen Orientierung, jedoch nicht zum Lernen von Sprachen.

Fasulye
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