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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2761 of 3959
12 January 2012 at 10:22am | IP Logged 
I'll be ready to discuss the book when I get it, but it is clear that I should have preordered it - however I simply didn't expect that it would take a week to get it from a bookstore with an address in Denmark. Maybe they first have to get it from England or something like that. I doubt that they are drowning in orders - the overwhelming interest which the book has raised in this language obsessed forum is probably not shared in the population at large.

In the video I actually said that there were interesting languages in the evening school program I had read (things like Chinese, Japanese, Croatian and even Swedish), but I suspected that people spent more time chatting in Danish. And when I spoke about homestudy as the key to cheap and abundant language learning I also said that it would be a good idea to combine it with stays abroad or evening courses. But evening courses alone? Well, there I'm pessimistic...

Edited by Iversen on 12 January 2012 at 10:24am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 2762 of 3959
13 January 2012 at 10:31am | IP Logged 
ESP: Hieraŭ mi rigardis "Time Team" ("Tempa teamo") en televido sur la Historia Kanalo (en la angla). La teamo elfosis ĉifoje du lokojn en la angla urbo Bath ("Banujo"). Ili trovis konstruaĵojn kie ili atendis entombigojn, kaj ili trovis vojon kaj entombigojn kie ili atendis domojn. Mi elfosis altaĵeton de papero aldone al mia stereofona rako, kaj sub mia Nederlanda gvidlibro pri Romo, multaj muzikopaperoj kaj printaĵoj en malsamaj lingvoj mi trovis la Kongreson libron kaj aliaj paperoj de la legenda Universala Kongreso no. 96 en Kopenhago. Tial mi trarigardis ĝin kaj kopiis kaj studis unuan sekcion (la sekcio pri ekskursoj). Mi ankaŭ transskribis kaj studis sekcion de libro de Spivako pri poliglotoj kaj lernado de lingvoj.

Yesterday I returned late from work and had just a few hours left for studies. I watched Time Team on the History Channel. This time the team exavated two areas at the outskirts of Bath and found buildings where they expected graves and graves and a road where they had counted on finding houses. At the same time I excavated a thick heap of paper on top of my stereo rack, and under the Dutch guide to Rome, a lot of music sheets with themes from my cassette collection and various print-outs in different languages I found the Congress booklet from the fabled Ninetysixth Universal Esperanto Congress in Copenhagen which I attended in July 2011. I look it through again and copied/studied one section (the one about the excursions). Afterwards I did the same thing with one more passage from Spivak's book about polyglots and language learning.


Edited by Iversen on 13 January 2012 at 10:36am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2763 of 3959
16 January 2012 at 10:21am | IP Logged 
I have spent the weekend on meetings in my travel club and on preparing stuff for its new homepage (mostly 'postcards' from 2011) - it seems that we are now ready to transfer more material from the old homepage to the new one, and that will cost me some time here in 2012 - and because this stuff is in Danish this activity is irrelevant for my language studies. But they will continue.

Jeg var dog på biblioteket lørdag formiddag, hvor jeg blandt andet lånte "SprogBogen" af Jørgen Pagh. Den er angiveligt "en bog om verdens sprog og deres slægtskab", men ikke ret tyk og på et ret elementært nivaau. Der er også enkelte tvivlsomme oplysninger. For eksempel oplyses det om polsk på side 50 at "der bruges en del apostroffer'. Der menes vist 'diakritiske tegn', som det polske alfabet er spækket med. Længere nede på samme side skrives at "serberne .. antog det kyrilliske alfabet, som de stadig bruger". Dt er korrekt, men det burde nævnes at mange, måske de fleste serbiske hjemmesider er skrevet med latinske bogstaver (som er enerådende på kroatisk) - men bogen udkom i 1996, og måske var situationen anderledes dengang.

I did manage to visit the library Saturday, and here I borrowed among other things a small book from 1996 about the languages of the world. It contains what it says it contains, but there are a fair amount of small inaccuracies, and everything is told in a very elementary way.

By the way,

Mi legis en artikolo pri Esperanto en dana libera ĵurnalo."La 26-an de Julio 1887 li povis eldoni la Unuan Libron danke al la financa helpo de la patro de Klara Zamenhof (naskita Silbernik),..". Tio signifas, ke en Julio 2012 la esperantistoj (aŭ 'samideanoj') estos festantaj la 125. naskotago de ilia lingvo. Parenteze, mi ne tre kontentas kun la vorto 'samideano'. Ĉiam ni diskutas Esperantan lingvon tie ĉi ĉe HTLAL, ĝi aperas ke egale lernantoj de ĉi tiu nobla lingvo ne abonas la samaj ideoj pri ĝia uzo.



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Brun Ugle
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 Message 2764 of 3959
16 January 2012 at 2:21pm | IP Logged 
Does Time Team still exist? I used to love that show, but I haven't seen it in years. I thought maybe they stopped making it.

The net was probably a lot more primitive in 1996. I don't remember that year exactly, but I remember that only a few years before that it was mostly newsgroups and such rather than fancy webpages like everyone has today. However, I would assume it would be even more likely that they would have used the Latin alphabet at that time since it was so much more primitive.


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Iversen
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 Message 2765 of 3959
16 January 2012 at 5:07pm | IP Logged 
I watch Time Team on History Channel through cable TV, and one of the latest shows was their 100. one. In the UK it is Channel4 that has kept it going since 1994, but I checked whether you could watch the program from their homepage and found the usual regional blocking mechanism ("not available in your area"). There are some clips on Youtube and elsewhere, which you can find through Google.

Edited by Iversen on 16 January 2012 at 5:08pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2766 of 3959
17 January 2012 at 12:16am | IP Logged 
FR: .. et je continue à regarder la télé. Je regarde maintenant les nouvelles de TV5 concernant le navire naufragé près de l'Italie. Et ce doit être les nouvelles de la Suisse Romande puisque le prix du bateau est donné comme 700 million de francs (une somme tout à fait exorbitante). Ma première pensée: le Français ont-ils toujours l'habitude de conter en NF ('noveaux francs') comme juste après introduction de l'Euro? Alors je me suis rendu compte des sources diverses des programmes de TV5.

SW: Innan nyheterna såg jag et timmelångt program om den svensk-norske Malmbanan från Kiruna till Narvik. Jag har aldrig rest med tåg på denna sträcka, eftersom det skulle ha krävt en övernattning i Narvik, och jag hade det principen på mine InterRail-resor endast att sova på tågen. Malmtågen är några av världens längsta och tyngsta - 750 meter och 8500 ton. Närmaste konkurrent är antagligen ett tåg i Mauretanien.

GE: Und noch früher habe ich DRK aus Dänemark gesehen, aber auf Deutsch: ein umfangreiches Programm über die Dynastie der Ptolemäer in Ägypten vor Cleopatra. Tatsache ist, daß wir viel von Kleopatra hören, aber fast nichts über ihre Vorgänger, die jedoch ganz fascinierende Frauen waren. Ptolemaios I Soter war der erste Griechische Pharao, einer der Generäle, die das reich des Alexander der Großen nach dessem Tod teilte. Seiner Sohn Ptolemaios II Philadelphos heiratete seine Schwester Arsinoë II und erhob sie gleich danach sur Göttin. Aber auch Göttinnen sterben, und danach hat er eine willenstarke Weib namens Berenice II heiratet, die als junges Weib an Pferderennen gegen männliche Gegner aufgetreten sei. Sie hatte 6 Kinder, und wenn nach dem Tod des Ptolemaios weiterregieren wollte, haben zwei davon sie ermordet und sich selbst als inzestuöses Ehepaar und Machthaber installiert: Ptolemaios IV Philopater und Arsinoë III. Der Ehemann war konstant betrunken und verschwendete seine Zeit mit Orgien, wo er ganz buchstablich paukend herumstolperte - und Arsinoë konnte damit großen Einfluß gewinnen. Wenn der Ptolemaios aber starb, hat man seinen Tod ein ganzes Jahr geheimgehalten ... und danach kam eine lange Zeit des Chaos. Während diese etwas besondere Verhältnisse im Herrscherhaus herrschten, entwickelte sich aber gleichzeitig Alexandria sur geistigen Zentrum der ganzen Welt, mit seiner berühmten Bibliothek und Gelehrten wie Eratosthenes. Und nun frage ich: warum wird immer wieder nur über Cleopatra berichtet?   


Edited by Iversen on 17 January 2012 at 12:20am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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 Message 2767 of 3959
18 January 2012 at 11:58pm | IP Logged 
I have met an old acquiantance again today: IRISH. I dropped it last year because I realised that a language with such a spelling and such an pronunciation would be difficult to learn primarily through written sources - and whenever I heard snippets of Irish (for instance through the excellent speech synthesizer abair.ie) I got a surprise. But I liked this weird old language so now I got a relapse, grabbed my trusty old Teach Yourself Irish from 1980 and went through the first 33 pages without encountering any major problems. I keep two sheets of paper within reach, one for here-and-now wordlists and the other everything else, including morphological tables and text copies. I reached the spot where the negative and interrogative variants of the verbs in present and past tense are explained (though without quoting all forms).

Let me give a few examples

The verb for 'strike' in the present positive has these forms:

1s: buailim
2s: buailir / buaileann tú
3s: buaileann sé/sí

1p: buailimíd
2p: buaileann sibh
3p: buailid (/ buaileann siad)

As you can see some forms consists of one word, others are compound forms consisting of a neutral verbal form plus a pronoun. And of course the distribution isn't the same in the past tense (please notice the particle "do"):

do bhuaileas
do bhuailis
do bhuail sé/sí

do bhuaileamair
do bhuaileabhair / do bhuail sibh
do bhuaileadar

The 'bh' is the result of a rule called aspiration, which is applied almost as an ending at the 'wrong' end of words in certain forms and after certain words, in this case that innocently-looking "do".

But Irish wouldn't be Irish if things looked the same in the negative, the interrogative and the negative interrogative. First, there is a negative particle "ní" and an interrogative particle "an" (not to be confused with the "an" that occurs in irresponsible, eh sorry .. unpredictable places in the declination tables for the substantives), and they are combined respectively with aspiration and eclipsis:

ní bhuailim   resp. an mbuailim? ("I don't strike" resp. "Do I strike?")

As you see an 'm' has intruded in the interrogative form. What you can't see is that now the 'b' has become silent - but it is still written to remind people about the affiliation of this form with the other forms of the verb "buailim". By the way, you didn't expect that Irish had an infinitive? No, it hasn't, so you quote vernbs in the 1. person singular positive present form in dictionaries. But I'm use to that game from Modern Greek.

Did you expect that the particles in the past were the same ones as in the present tense? Haha. But at least the aspiration is the only deviation rule in play here:

níor bhuaileas resp. ar bhuaileas? ("I did not strike" resp. "Did I strike?").

Irish is fun.


Edited by Iversen on 20 January 2012 at 1:27am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4840 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2768 of 3959
20 January 2012 at 12:21am | IP Logged 
BA I: Malam ini saya mempelajari artikel dari Wikipedia Indonesia tentang tata bahasa de manusia. Itu cukup panjang dan cukup rinci, dan aku belajar kata-kata untuk subyek dan obyek dan kerja dan benda dan berbeda jenis-jenis tata bahasa - jadi ini adalah tekst sangat berguna juga karena konten. Tapi kata-kelas dalam bahasa Indonesia cukup fuzzy - dalam kamus saya Bahasa - Inggris saya sering melihat terjemahan yang kata sifat atau substantifs dan terjemahan yang verba dalam bahasa Inggris bersebehelahan.

Tonight I worked my way through the article about grammar in the Indonesian Wikipedia and learnt a number of very relevant terms, like the words for verbs and substantives. However I know no other language which is so liberal when it comes to wordclasses. If you look at the translations in an Indonesian-English dictionary you shouldn't be surprised to see substantives and adjectives and verbs side by side under one Indonesian headword.

I have also spent some more time on my Teach yourself Irish. I have one corrrection: yesterday I wrote that Irish verbs are quoted under their 1. person singular present form. But in my pocket dictionary from Collins they are quoted using a short neutral form. Today I read about the prepositions, which have a tendency to fuse with articles and (later in the book) pronouns. And through some kind of X-ray effect they impose the mutation known as eclipsis on the substantive AFTER the article. Except after "dun" and "den", which are the fused form of respectively do + an/na and di + an/na, where there is aspiration.

I also had a look at a text in Polish about zoos, but it was surprisingly hard to get back into the habit of reading Polish. I used one of my old Polish/Russian interspersed texts with a Danish column to the right. Actually I produced such a lext for later use earlier today - it will tell me all about the village Cerekiew on 4 full pages.   


Edited by Iversen on 08 February 2012 at 3:52pm



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