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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1121 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 6:11pm | IP Logged 
POR: Excepto a Wiki Learn_Any_Language, este é o único lugar onde eu escrevo sobre a aprendisagem de linguas. No sitio do cual eu sou o webmaster, eu escrevo sômente sobre viagens. Tenho uma lista das minhas contribuções mais substanciais aqui.


Edited by Iversen on 15 July 2009 at 6:12pm

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Tupiniquim
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 Message 1122 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 6:43pm | IP Logged 
POR: Muito obrigado. Este índice vai ser útil, eu estava justamente mais interessado no tal método das traduções hiperliterais que lembro ter lido em outro dos seus tópicos.


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Iversen
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 Message 1123 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 11:50pm | IP Logged 
POR:
Já escrevi várias traduções iperliterais do dinamarquês no Inglês nesta 'diario de bordo'
Already (I) wrote various translations hyperliteral from Danish in English inThis Book-of-course (logbook)

porque Fasulye escreveu que foram úteis para ela.
because Fasulye wrote that (they) were useful for her

Mas esta breve explicação pode ilustrar o que é com elas.
But this short explanation can illustrate that that is with them.

Se pode fazer essas traduções a fim de segurar todos os sentidos e todas as construções de um texto (breve) - obviamente com o entendimento de que se descobre qualquer expressão idiomática. Para obter isto é conveniente, mas não obrigatório ter també uma tradução normal - eantão se pode estudar quanto imprecisas são realmente as traduções normais. A ideeia do uso de traduções iperliterais é naturalmente evitar que as peculiaridades do idioma proprio ditarão a tradução - afinal não é o seu idioma que quer aprender, mas a língua-alvo.

--------

You can make these translations in order to secure every shred of meaning and every construction in a (short) text - provided that you catch idiomatic expressions and things like that. To be sure of that, it is convenient but not obligatory also to have a 'regular' translation of the text - and then you will see how imprecise many ordinary translations really are! The whole point of using hyperliteral translations is of course that the target language should dictate the translation, not the idiosyncracies of your own language. After all it isn't your own language that you want to learn, but the target language.

--------

A pintura Portuguêsa na minha série se chama "álcool" - mas eu tenho totalmente esquecido o nome do autor, e com um tal título não tenho muitas posibilidades de achar o poema original através do Google.

The Portuguese painting in this series is simply called "alcool" (alcohol), and with such a vague title and no idea about who wrote it it won't be easy to find the original poem through a Google search. There are probably more green men with three heads on this planet than non-alcoholic poets.





Edited by Iversen on 16 July 2009 at 2:42pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1124 of 3959
16 July 2009 at 12:03pm | IP Logged 
HYPERLITERAL TRANSLATIONS

Inspired by your hyperliteral translations Danisch - English I made my first hyperliteral translation Turkish - English. I found it esay to make it because you only have to adapt to the structure of the Turkish language and you may neclect any form of style. It's easier than making normal translations, I was surprised about that!!! I'm planning to write more essays in Turkish (as long as I have interesting topics to write about not beeing to complex for my beginner language level). This will give me the chance to make more hyperliteral translations. It's fun making hyperliteral translations from a foreign language A to a foreign language B, so I intend to make hyperliteral translations Turkish - Dutch as well.

People who want to read my hyperliteral translations are invited to my Turkish only TAC log!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 16 July 2009 at 12:06pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1125 of 3959
16 July 2009 at 2:32pm | IP Logged 
It is not only easier than it is to make an ordinary translation: the things you deliberately disregard in your own language are exactly those things that disturb your proper understanding of the target language. And instead you write something that forces you to study the way your target language is built.

Of course somebody has to translate books and other texts from one language into another, but that's a job which you can leave to those who already have mastered the target language to perfection.

IC: Eg hef fyrrum skrifað að eg nót Google til Þess að gefa mér texta á ýmsum málum. Eg takmerk leitan á eitt mál og slá inn orð, og þá sjáumst hvað bera að koma upp. Í þessu skiptu hef ég gefið Google nafnið "Tolkien". Þessi ríthöfundi hefur lánið mikið frá fornnorrænum sögum (svo sem nafna dvergarna óg Gandalfs - þótt Gandalf sé dvergur í Völuspá), og ég fann ein heimsiðu www.hugi.is/tolkien/articles.php með greinum yfir galdrakonunginn Angmar, Aragorn, Fëanor (smiðurinn hringsins), Eowyn (sem mátti vega hann Angmar af því að hun sé ekki karlmaður), Arwen Undómiel og öðrum. Þetta er auðvitað minnri enn hvað er að finnast á Egnsku, en Island er óg minnre málsvið.

Hin besta heimsiða yfir verk Tolkiens - með viðtækt alfræðirit - var snemma Ardalambion. En sú ér hverfað, og eg hef ekki hittað erfdin hana. Leit fyrir 'Ardalambion' leiðar núna á siðu http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/ (eða http://move.to/ardalambion (með sprettigluggum)), sem er ágæta siðan Helge Fauskangers yfir öllu mál Tolkiens:

Quenya - the Ancient Tongue
Sindarin - the Noble Tongue
Adûnaic - the Vernacular of Númenor
Westron - the Common Speech
Telerin - the Language of the Sea-Elves
Doriathrin - the Mothertongue of Lúthien
Various Mannish Tongues - the Sadness of Mortal Men?
Nandorin - the Green-elven Tongue
Old Sindarin - between Primitive Elvish and Grey-elven
Ilkorin - a "Lost Tongue"?
Avarin - All Six Words
Khuzdul - the Secret Tongue of the Dwarves
Entish - Say Nothing That Isn't Worth Saying
Orkish and the Black Speech - Base Language for Base Purposes
Valarin - Like the Glitter of Swords
Primitive Elvish - Where It All Began

Hér er óg véfsjár á þýðuðu Ardalambion-greinum á mörgum málum, undir því kursar i Quenya og aðra Álfamál.

-----

I have described several times before how I use Google to find something interesting to read. This time I limited it to Icelandic and wrote "Tolkien" in the search box. And then I found several things about this author, who borrowed heavily from the Old Norse sagas - for instance almost all the names of his dwarwes are snatched from Völuspá (including the name Gandalf). I found an excellent website with lots of wellwritten articles about more or less important persons in the books of Mr. Tolkien (www.hugi.is/tolkien/articles.php). There was once upon a time an English homepage Ardalambion, which contained an immense encyclopedia with all names from the books of Tolkien explained - it was an amazing and stupendous site, probably the best I have seen for any author (and few authors deserve it more). Now the original site Ardalambion.com is set for sale, but the linguistic part of it lives on in http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/ (by the Norwegian enthousiast Helge Fauskanger). Here you can not only find articles in English, but also links to translation of the articles into other (human) languages and even complete courses in the High Elwen language Quenya. So if you want a respite from studying Klingon or Esperanto then you have something nice to do her: learn Quenya.

EDIT: Triumph!! I just found the Encyclopedia of Arda at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/alphad.html, - so if you have forgotten who the Druédain of Berleriand or Linda Baggins or Tar-Palantir are then you can find out about it here.

Edited by Iversen on 25 July 2009 at 10:55pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1126 of 3959
16 July 2009 at 2:39pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
It is not only easier than it is to make an ordinary translation: the things you deliberately disregard are exactly those things that disturb your proper understanding ing the target language. And instead you write something that forces you to study the way your target language is built.


Exactly, this is very true! It's my very first experience with making such a kind of translation and I intend to make some more hyperliteral translations. But at least for the next 3 weeks I can't do that, because my private computer has broken down today and I will only have very limited internet access. I have to wait now until my Dutch friend comes back from his Esperanto holidays, because I need his expertise. Only he can tell me, whether it's worth while having it repared.

Fasulye



Edited by Iversen on 07 November 2009 at 2:05am

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Iversen
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 Message 1127 of 3959
16 July 2009 at 10:59pm | IP Logged 
SP: En la serie de pinturas literarias hemos alcanzado a España, vecino de Portugal, donde vuelan las aves de Gustavo Adolfo Bécquer:

Volverán las oscuras golondrinas
en tu balcón sus nidos a colgar,
y otra vez con el ala a sus cristales
jugando llamarán.

.. y rompen las olas:

Olas gigantes que os rompéis bramando
en las playas desiertas y remotas,
envuelto entre la sábana de espumas,
¡llevadme con vosotras!

Se puede leer más sobre Becquer aqui ('www.perfildemujer.com' - sic!). Está considerado como poeta neoclassico libre de todo sensacionalismo, pero su muerte fu bien enscenificado. En el momento que murió, sussurrando sus últimas palabras "Todo mortal" - había eclipse total de sol en Sevilla.   



From Portugal we move to Spain, where the swallows are whisking around and the wawes are breaking, thanks to Gustavo Adolfo Bécquer. He was a meek and reticent man who didn't accomplish much (anything?) during his lifetime, - his friends had to find money to publish his collected works after his death in 1870. But at least his death was well choreographed: just when the poor dying poet was uttering his last words - "everything (is) mortal" (or "completely mortal") - a total solar eclipse passed Sevilla.


Edited by Iversen on 17 July 2009 at 10:35am

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Iversen
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 Message 1128 of 3959
16 July 2009 at 11:32pm | IP Logged 
CAT (+SP): La llengua catalana està representada aquí pel seu primer gran campió, Ramon Llull (Raimundus Lullus). El treball il.lustrat es probablement "Arbre de filosofia d'amor" - es la senyora Amor que es veu seient, plorant tot sola, mentre que la seva Germana, senyora Filosofia de Saber ensenya tota una manada de vells teòlegs (senyora Saber es veu també amb els seus amadors acadèmics en el racó a dret - aquesta secció il.lustra com pensa senyora Amor de la seva Germana acadèmica: pura passió carnal). I en Ramón joga el seu llaüt per a confortar la dama desesperada, peró jo no crec que funciona.

Hi ha solament un problem: no he pogut trobar et texte original de en Ramón, peró tan sols aquest resùm en Castellá:

"En el inicio del Arbre de filosofia d'amor, Ramon Llull nos cuenta cómo, para poder preparar el citado libro se retira a un bosque -una 'bela selva'- cercano a París, donde, a la sazón, se hallaba. [...] En medio de aquel prado, Ramon ve un manantial y un gran árbol, a cuya sombra se encuentra una bela dona molt ornadament vestida* que está sollozando y lamenándose por su mala ventura. Ramon entabla conversación con ella y, así, se entera de que esa dama es Filosofia d'amor y se queja porque 'he pocs amadors, e ma Germana Filosofia de saber n'à molts més que mi' "

* aparenment he oblidat pintar les robes de les dones



This painting illustrates a work by the very famous Ramón Llull (Raimundus Lullus in Latin), a Catalan philosopher, poet, traveller, alchemist and polyglot from the 1300s. The work that I have illustrated is called "The tree of the Philosophy of Love". I couldn't find the original text on the internet, but according to a summary in Castillian mr. Llull met a richly clothed lady under a tree in a garden (I forgot to paint the clothes, sorry). The poor thing was weeping like there was no tomorrow because she hadn't any lovers, and her green sister the Philosophy of Knowledge - apparently had a lot more than her (Sister Love's dirty thoughts about them is shown to the upper right). So apparently Mr. Llull saw it fit to play something on his lute for her as if that would solve the problem - which of course is that lady Love grossly overestimates the erotic potential of academic knowledge - you wonder what kind of horny academics they had in Valencia or Paris in the late Middle Ages.

Btw. did you know that 'vert' (green) in Catalan also can signify 'salacious'? A Catalan might get a totally other meaning out of Chomsky's famous "colourless green ideas"!


Edited by Iversen on 17 July 2009 at 10:12am



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