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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1273 of 3959
02 September 2009 at 10:20am | IP Logged 
Έχω βρεθεί ένα 'δικτυκό καφενείο' (πώς το λες αυτό εδώ;) εδώ στην Φλώρινα. Aπό την τελευταία επίσκεψή μου έχω περάσει 18 ώρες στην αργή και μυρίζω τρένο από το Βελιγράδι προς την Θεσσαλονίκη. Στιν Θεσσαλονίκι έχω αγοράσει 3 διαφορετικά επιστημονικά περιοδικά: NEO, Science Illustrated και Focus, που είναι ένα περιοδικό με πολύ ενδιαφέροντα άρθρα σχετικά το μέλλον. Μπορώ να καταλάβω τα περισσότερα από τα περιεχόμενα μόνο ανάγνωσοντασ αργά και με προσοχή, αλλά εγώ επί πλέον κοίταξε μερικές λέξεις σε μικρό λεξικό μου Langenscheidt. Πολλές από αυτές τις λέξεις δεν βρίσκονται σε αυτό το λεξικό με 2 x 15.000 λέξει, oποία δείχνει κάτι σχετικά με τον αριθμό των λέξεων που πραγματικά χρειάζεται για να καταλάβει τα πάντα σ'ένα επιστημονικό περιοδικό. Και η την κατανόηση μιας συνομιλίας είναι ακόμη δυσκολότερη.

150917 visits, and still growing! I found an internet place in Florina in Greece by walking up and down the streets, and in spite of a screaming horde of small Florinian boys running around in the room I have had succeeded in reading much of the stuff from the last couple of days. I can see that I have a major job ahead of me when I get home: moving tips and tricks for language learning to the new thread about such techniques. But that kind of painstaking work is something I won't do from a foreign computer - not even one with an English keyboard. Btw. I can see the the other keyboards near me also are with Latin letters, but with Greek texts on the screen.

I have bought three scientific magazines, and the funny thing is that they all have names in Latin letters (see above). My comprehension of written Greek is way ahead of my understanding of the spoken language, - I can almost read these magazine with just the help of a tiny Greek-German Langenscheidt. But I have nevertheless made a list of more than 100 words from just the beginning of Focus which I have used as the basis for a word list. But many of the words I don't know aren't found in the dictionary either - which just goes to show that you need more than a vocabulary of 15.000 words to read ordinary foreign mags. Btw. Focus is a very intriguing magazine about the future (catastrophes, gadgets and all) , - and it mentions that the Mayan calendar will run out in 2012. Some people believe that will be the end of the world. Knowing the mentality of people on Yucatan I just think they'll have a gigantic party and get very drunk over there in 2012.   

Edited by Iversen on 22 September 2009 at 11:08am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1274 of 3959
02 September 2009 at 2:19pm | IP Logged 
The minuscule work of moving threads or posts is meant for people being at home, people on holidays should relax and enjoy travelling and speaking foreign languages.

The magazine "Focus" is on sale here in Germany in the Italian version. It has a kind of boulevard style, but it deals with science and technology. I personally prefer the more serious approach of magazines like "Geo", "Scientific American", "Earth" written without using mathematics.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 03 September 2009 at 3:56pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1275 of 3959
04 September 2009 at 10:32am | IP Logged 
I have now arrived at Korça in Albania, where I am sittting at a computer with a keyboard where the keys are local, but produces the same letters as an American keyboard - that is weird, and I don't know how to make a lot of signs. I just found the ' a minute ago. Already that is a good reason for not working on making or moving threads in and to the new techniques subforum. But I have been thinking a lot about how to do it, because I will probably not move whole threads, but rather move or copy single posts with the necessary information. That will be much easier to use for the members here. For instance my profile thread has big articles about several different themes, which should be sorted nicely out. I'm thinking about making seperate threads about wordlists, the use of bilingual texts, learning grammar and listening without trying frantically to understand.


The Greek magazine focus also is somewhat flashy and sensationalist, but its future related attitude makes it very exciting to read, and it is not as silly as I first thought when I bought it.
    
Θα ήθελα 2/3 μέρες πιο στην Ελλάδα, γιατί μόνο άρχισα να καταλαβαίνω πραγματικά προφορικά Ελληνικά στην τελευταία ημέρα ή έτσι από 4 ημέρες της παραμονής μου - κάπως ως έχω περιγράφεται με την αναφορά του σκυλί που ακολουθεί ένα μονοπάτι δεν ανησυχοντας ν για το περιβάλλον. Η ημέρα που πέρασα στην Καστοριά, μίλησα στην πραγματικότητα σχεδόν κυρίως ελληνικά, και κυρίως κατάλαβα την απάντηση. 2/3 ημέρες περισσότερο .. αυτό θα σημαίνει ότι θα μπορούσα να πειραματιστείτε με αυτό να μιλήσω μόνο ελληνικά.

Αλλά τώρα είμαι στην Αλβανία, όπου το πρόβλημα είναι αρκετά για να βρω κάποιον που μπορει να κατανοήσει - αγγλικά ή γερμανικά, ή ακόμα και ελληνικά αν συναντήσετε κάποιον από την ελληνική μειονότητα. Συνάντησα πραγματικά μια ελληνική οικογένεια κατά την πρώτη επίσκεψή μου στον Αργυρόκαστρο πριν από μερικά χρόνια.

It is somewhat problematic that I had to leave Greece already now, because it was just the very last day in Kastorias that I felt that I suddenly could understand what people told me. Therefore I dared to speak mostly in Greek to people, and it seemed that people understood me fairly well - even though my accent must have been atrocious. A few days more and I could have started to experiment with speaking exclusively Greek. But right now I'm sitting in Korça in Albania, and here the problem is really to find people who speak English or German or even Greek - there is a small Greek-speaking minority here, and I actually met such a family during my first visit in Gjirokaster a few years ago. And then I will continue to work on my Greek and also my Serbian while being here. I am not going to try to learn Albanian, but if I see a language guide or maybe even a grammar here, then I will of course buy it straight away.


Edited by Iversen on 22 September 2009 at 11:21am

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Iversen
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 Message 1276 of 3959
05 September 2009 at 5:55pm | IP Logged 
IT: Ora mi trovo a Vlorë, una citta albanese al Adriatico con tre linee di traghetti verso città Italiane e percio anche con un flusso di turiste Italiane che non si tgrova in altre citta albanese. Il mio albergo si chiama Bologna, ho almeno due programmi Italiani alla mia disposizione sulla televisione e ho mangiato una pizza napoletana ed un cornetto con tre gusti di ghiaccio. Si, davvero si sente una influenza Italiana qui. Ma domani prenderei il autobusso verso il capitale Tirana, al quale il mio club di viaggianti 'De berejstes Klub' ha ha rilegato un incontro, con un membro che attualmente vive lì come organizzatore ed ideatore principale. E con una partita di calcio tra l'Albania e la Danimarca come ragione ufficiale - sebbene io personalmente non abbia nulla intenzione del mondo di assistirci. Il calcio non mi interessa del tutto.

Right now I'm in Vlore, an Albanian town at the Adriatic Sea with no less than three ferry routes to Italian towns. This also means that there is a certain Italian influence: my hotel is called Bologna, I have at least two Italian TV programs and I have eaten a pizza and an Italian-style icecream. Tomorrow I'm going to the capital Tiurana, where my travel club has arranged a meeting with a resident member as organisator and a completely irrelevant fottball match between Denmark and Albania as the official excuse for making it right here right now. To be sure, I'm NOT going to be at the local stadium when that happens!

Apart from that: I have more or less decided what I'll do about the technique forum when I return home. I'll make five threads based on single posts copied or snatched from other threads (not least my profile thread), supplemented with items written for the 'How-to-learn.. Wikia' and new items as necessary, including a synopsis at the beginning at each thread. The first will be called "Iversen's guide to attacking a new language", and it will be the one that explains the reasons for making the others (plus links). No. 2 will be dealing with translations and bilingual texts, no. 3 with wordlists, no. 4 with methods to learn grammar and no. 5 with ways to deal with genuine speech. I have sketched the whole thing last evening, but will compile it in Word first and then transfer the content so quickly to the forum that nobody gets a chance to comment before the whole thing is uploaded.

It may however be practical a problem for me that I also have to update the homepage of my travel club and organize my 200+ photos and write a travel diary at the same time... plus I have to go to work and see what they have in store for me. It is certainly hard work to be a tourist, but it means also hard work to get back home.


Edited by Iversen on 05 September 2009 at 6:00pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1277 of 3959
05 September 2009 at 9:19pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Apart from that: I have more or less decided what I'll do about the technique forum when I return home. I'll make five threads based on single posts copied or snatched from other threads (not least my profile thread), supplemented with items written for the 'How-to-learn.. Wikia' and new items as necessary, including a synopsis at the beginning at each thread. The first will be called "Iversen's guide to attacking a new language", and it will be the one that explains the reasons for making the others (plus links). No. 2 will be dealing with translations and bilingual texts, no. 3 with wordlists, no. 4 with methods to learn grammar and no. 5 with ways to deal with genuine speech. I have sketched the whole thing last evening, but will compile it in Word first and then transfer the content so quickly to the forum that nobody gets a chance to comment before the whole thing is uploaded.


ENG: You are developing interesting ideas about making your writings adequate for our new "Technique Subforum". Sounds like being a very impressive amount of work, but it seems worth investing it, because all forum members will profit when reading it. I am doing whole day shifts here with voluntary forum work, but I am very motivated to invest this time, because somebody has to do it anyway and I have the temporary situation of being without a fulltime job, so I am most suitable to volunteer here. I think this forum will improve a lot by our Administrators activities together with active forum members supporting the improvements in the forum. Last not least moderator work is not an easy one, I can estimate this much more being now involved with this new task as well.

So I wish you good luck with your coming work on the new learning technique subforum - but first enjoy the rest of your holidays!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 05 September 2009 at 9:27pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1278 of 3959
06 September 2009 at 11:11am | IP Logged 
There is always moments during a travel where you can't run around and watch museums, eat pizzas or searching for internet places, and during those moments - and not least during the evenings - I have lots of time to think about languages study methods. There are several reasons for not starting already now to compose the system I have sketched, but the main reason is that I don't have my usual programs and 'favorite links' at my disposal, and I don't have access to my backup files in Word with things I would like to preserve, - but I remember some of those things so I generally know what I want to put into the new threads. Besides working on a foreign computer is always problematic. Right now I'm sitting in Tirana - though I have just arrived with a bus so I don't know where in Tirana - in a nice musicfree internet cafe with an American keyboard that seems to work like one of those is supposed to. But it is still not like working at home at my own PC.

I have bought a small language guide in the style of Berlitz and Lonely P, - but written in Albanian with English as the target language. Nevertheless it gives me the principial words and phrases, like 'yes', 'now', 'thanks' and 'where is the toilet'. And I can glean something about the pronunciation by seen how the Albanian author renders English words. 'Yes' is "po" (while wiggling your head from side to side) and 'No' is 'Jo' (while nodding), - it is somewhat confusing. But luckily the language is full of loan words, such as "rezervim" for 'reservation' and "hoteli" for 'hotel' and "autobuz" for 'autobus', and the ortography is extremely consistent. I hope I can find a small grammar here to tell me something more about the language, such as why adjectives and other qualifiers sometimes are used with a particle "i" and whether there is an infinitive. There are some allegedly international bookstores in central Tirana which may stock such things (if they exist) - at least those stores may sell English language guides about Albanian, and not the other way round.

And now it's time for some touristical activities (first of all I have to find out where I actually am on the map)

Edited by Iversen on 22 September 2009 at 12:17pm

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 Message 1279 of 3959
06 September 2009 at 2:17pm | IP Logged 
ALBANISCH

GER: Du bist gerade in Albanien und mir stellt sich jetzt die Frage, in welche Sprachgruppe Albanisch gehört und mit welchen Sprachen Albanisch verwandt ist. Oder ist es eine ganz isolierte Sprache wie Baskisch etwa? Das will ich eigentlich jetzt mal wissen... Albanisch ist keine slawische Sprache, soviel weiß ich schon.

Fasulye
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 Message 1280 of 3959
06 September 2009 at 3:22pm | IP Logged 
Iversen, you contribute so much to this forum, I'm sure other members would like to give something back to you. That is certainly my sentiment. I could offer, when appropriate, suggestions about minor points in English. I hesitate because I'm not sure you would want to see such comments. As an example, here are a couple:

Iversen wrote:
you can't run around and watch museums, eat pizzas or searching for internet places ...
And now it's time for some touristical activities

"you can't run around and visit museums, eat pizzas or search for internet places ...
And now it's time for some tourist activities". English grammar is not my strong point, but according to Merriam-Webster, touristic is a word, touristical is not, but touristically is a word, as in touristically-speaking. I think most people would say tourist or tourist-like.

So, if you'd prefer not to see this kind of feedback, I'll cease and desist.


Edited by tommus on 06 September 2009 at 3:45pm



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