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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 1113 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 1:43pm | IP Logged 
Ich versuche mich ja immer daran, von den skandinavischen posts etwas zu verstehen. Daher blicke ich auch hin und wieder in die skandinavischen threads der Multilingual Lounge, aber natürlich kann ich da nur "lurken".

Ich sitze hier gerade in der Mediothek an einem öffentlichen Computer, den ich eine Stunde benutzen darf. Eben habe ich den Frust bekommen, als ich vergebens nach dem neuesten Heft von "Bild der Wissenschaft" gesucht habe und erfahren musste, dass wegen Lieferantenwechsels die letzten drei Hefte fehlen. Um diese Zeitschrift im Bahnhofskiosk selbst zu kaufen, finde ich sie eigentlich zu teuer. Also muss ich weiter ausharren...

Übrigens finde ich, dass dieses Norwegisch von tricoteuse der dänischen Sprache total ähnlich sieht!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 15 July 2009 at 1:45pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1114 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 1:46pm | IP Logged 
FR: La série litteraire de peintures date des années 70 où j'ai du m'occuper de la littérature française pour avoir mon examen. Et si j'ai pris un cours dans une autre langue - et même avant, dans l'école primaire et le lycée - c'est toujour les belles-lettres qui ont fourni les matériaux. Je reconnais encore l'existence de livres littérature qu'il vaudrait la peine de lire, mais je préfère les oeuvres non fictifs. Et oui, j'aime les couleurs dans la peinture.

DA: Jeg har gjort en lille test: jeg skrev ordet "korleis" som KUN findes på nynorsk, og det blev korrekt oversat til svensk "hur, hurdan", men ikke til bokmål/dansk "hvordan" eller "hvorledes". "Hvorledes" genfindes på dansk og norsk, men uden advarsel om at det er et udpræget bokmål-ord, og uden oversættelse til nynorsk. I grunden burde man behandle nynorsk som et selvstændigt sprog i ordbogssammenhæng.

DU: Op dit moment zit ik in feite en luistere naar een reeks video's op de Eremitage van Sint Petersburg, - en op de filial die nu wordt gebouwd in Amsterdam. Er word afwisselend gesproken Russisch, Nederlands en Engels (met ondertitels).

---------

The litterary series of pointings date from the 70s, where I still had to read literature because I was studying French, - but in fact every single language course that I have had at every possible level of education has been built on the assumption that we were learning the language in order to read litterature. Since then I have chosen to read other things, but I still acknowledge the existence of literary works that it might be worth reading if I could find the time to do it.

And yes, I like strong couleurs.

Tricoteuse mentions http://www.tradusa.se/lexicon/capere.jsp. I have mde a little test: I gave it the purely New Norwegian word "korleis" (how, - or in fact 'which way'). It translated it into Swedish, but not into Danish or Bokmål (these two languages share the two words "hvordan" and "hvorledes"). And when I gave it the word "hvorledes" it recognized the word in Danish and 'Norwegian" and translated it into Swedish, but it didn't mention the New Norwegian word "korleis".

Right now I'm listening to a series of Dutch videos about the Hermitage of Sankt Petersburg, and also about the offshot that is being established in Amsterdam. Luckily the original languages have been kept, and there are long passages in Russian with subtitles.


Edited by Iversen on 15 July 2009 at 5:11pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1115 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 1:52pm | IP Logged 
(nonsense about 'å' withdrawn)

Edited by Iversen on 15 July 2009 at 3:07pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1116 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 1:53pm | IP Logged 
NL: Helaas is hier in de mediatheek het afspelen van videos geblokkeerd, want anders had ik me de video over de Eremitage eens bekeken, want die lijkt in het Nederlands te zijn. Dus dat moet ik thuis later doen.

Fasulye
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tricoteuse
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 Message 1117 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 2:12pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
But look for the words for "and": "og" in Danish (and Icelandig) and "å" in both Bokmål and New Norwegian.


Now I'm confused. Bokmål uses both "og" and "å", but for different things. Does Nynorsk only use "å"?
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Iversen
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 Message 1118 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 3:50pm | IP Logged 
No, I'm the confused one - sorry about that.

'Å' was a thoroughly bad example, because it has other uses. I have made some exploratory searches on Google (limited to "Norwegian"). I use a simple heuristic rule to separate those two sublanguages: the presence of "k-words" versus "hv-words": korleis - hvorledes/hvordan, kvar - hvor etc.

In most cases "å" corresponds with the "at" in Danish that stands before infinitives ('to' in English): "Du kan langt på vei unngå å skape problemer ved å kjenne til bjørners atferd, og ta ansvar for at de ikke finner noe å spise i nærheten av mennesker".In Danish this is a real problem because we say "og" here, but have to write "at" according to the official rules!

Back to Norwegian: both "og" and "å" with the meaning of English'"and' are found in texts that are clearly are written in either Bokmål or New Norwegian. But never in Danish. It was my first impression that real 'hardcore' New Norwegian doesn't use "og". But that's false, it is hardly more common there than in Bokmål (where it may or may not be considered an error, I don't know).

In fact it is very easy to find New Norwegian examples with "og" like this one: "Me vil utvikla eit distansegrunnfag i historie som er heilt og fullt IKT-basert, og som folk kan melda seg på til eit kvart tidspunkt og studera i sitt eige tempo.". Her et med 'å': "Det vil føra for langt her å gå gjennom i detalj korleis du lagar slike avsnittsnivå i Word". Her "å" in a text with "hv-words": "Sjekk galleriet vårt her å se hvordan det kan gjøres!". Finally "og" with "hvorledes" here: "7 Farlige SEO feil og hvordan unngå dem!".

Btw. my search strings in Google were
"her og" korleis (1.190.000)
"her å" korleis (381.000)
"her og" hvorledes (495.000) / "her og" hvordan (492.000)
"her å" hvorledes (144.000) / "her å" hvordan (273000)

However I only found 40.700 hits with "her å" and "her og" in the same text, such as in this one: "det er kjedelig å stå her å vente! Først oppvarming, så må jeg stå her og kjede meg." And just 6850 with both "hvorledes" and "korleis" on the same page. And these include 'bilingual' texts and texts written by several persons.


Edited by Iversen on 15 July 2009 at 5:08pm

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tricoteuse
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 Message 1119 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 4:10pm | IP Logged 
I'm not sure if "å" used as "and" is a mistake or not in both variants (I'm pretty sure it is in Bokmål), simply because they are pronounced the same and people then tend to put "å" where it is not appropriate. I *think* I saw something about this somwhere, but I don't remember where... It may have been in the Swedish magazine "Språktidningen", I'll check tomorrow!
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Tupiniquim
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 Message 1120 of 3959
15 July 2009 at 5:51pm | IP Logged 
POR: Acompanho seu log já há algum tempo, porque das muitas linguagens que você sabe, uma delas é a minha nativa e várias outras me interessam (Sueco, Dinamarquês, Norueguês, Islandês, Alemão, Holandês). Além disso, pra tentar captar algo dos métodos de alguém que obviamente encontrou uma forma eficiente de estudar linguagens por conta própria.

Por isso mesmo estou escrevendo (além de parabenizá-lo pelo log de sucesso), para saber se há lugares onde outros de seus métodos de estudo estão descritos em tantos detalhes quanto o das listas de palavras.

Agradeço antecipadamente.

Edited by Tupiniquim on 15 July 2009 at 6:41pm



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