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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Hobbema
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 Message 1857 of 3959
28 May 2010 at 3:42pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
While I did this I listened to a tape with instrumental versions of short pieces by Medieval and Renaissance composers, i.e. people of yonder like Walther von der Vogelveide, Francesco Landini, Jacob Obrecht, Johannes Okeghem, Josquin desPrez, Guillaume Dufay et Claudin de Sermisy - as indicated by the names this is a truly international bunch of men, which reflect the supranational character of art music from the olden times. They mostly wrote vocal music, but I prefer hearing these pieces in instrumental versions.


Eu também prefeiro a música instrumental mais do que vocal. Mas, a música medieval e Renascentista da época, eu acho que é único e bem adequado para a voz.   Me parece que como instrumentos modernos evoluíram, que a qualidade do som dos instrumentos, as vezes, teve uma influência na música, assim como o gênio dos homens que escreveu. Como música com este personagem foi escrita para voz é um feito notável.

ENG: I, too, prefer instrumental music over vocal. But the medieval and Rennaissance music of that time I think is unique and well suited for the voice. It seems to me that how modern instruments evolved, that the sound quality of the instrument sometimes had an influence on the music, just as the genius of the men who wrote it. That music with this character was written for voice is a remarkable achievement.


Edited by Hobbema on 28 May 2010 at 3:43pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1858 of 3959
28 May 2010 at 10:49pm | IP Logged 
LAT: Non credo contra mores temporis medioevalibus renascimentisque esse musicam vocalem instrumentaliter efficere - re vera saepe istud facebant ipsi musici veteres, et in chartibus musicalibus interdum scribebant "per voci aut instrumenti". Impressiones phonographices quas heri auscultavi tamen rarissimae sunt quia solum per instrumentibus effectas, et longe mihi fuit eas colligere. "Cantus Palestinensis" de Walther von der Vogelweide circa 1220 per quintae expeditioni crucis factus est. In Youtube in multibus versionibus exstat, sed infeliciter non per instrumentis sine vocibus. Landini musicus caecus erat qui circa anno domini 1300 in Italia vixit. Pictus est cum organo portativo, sed dificilissime est musica eius sine vocibus reperire. Musica instrumentalis vetus saepe musica per saltare est et anonyma, quam saltarello iste.

--

I don't think it is against the spirit of the Medieval period and the Renaissance to play their vocal music on instruments - actually some scores state that the music can be sung OR played on instruments. But the pieces I heard yesterday are rare, and it took me a long time to prey them from a multitude of sources, where they more often that not were buried among sung songs. Therefore it is also difficult to direct you to instrumental versions on for instance Youtube. I tried to find such versions of some of the oldest composers.And the Palestina song (written for the 5. crusade around 1220) is there in innumerable versions, but I couldn't find a single purely instrumental one. The second oldest among those I mentioned yesterday is Landini, an blind musician from around 1300. On the only extant picture of him he is playing a small portable organ, - but on Youtube each and every piece by him is spoiled by singers with voices that could crack glass. When you do hear instrumental music from these periods it is mainly dances, and dances are often anonymous.

-------------

Deze avond heb ik vooral geluisterd naar Nederlands web-TV, met inbegrip van een 12 minuten durende lezing over Hans van Meegeren, die werd zeer succesvol als hij begint beelder van 'Vermeer' te malen. Toch hij was beschuldigd om te hebben Nationaalklenodien verkocht an Hermann Göring - en om een strenge straf voor dit verkoop van de nationale schatten aan een nazi te vermijden, moest hij bewijzen dat hij zelf de schilderijen had gemaakt. En zo kon de hypocriete kunstkenners plotseling goed zien dat het echt niet schilderijen van Vermerer waren.

This evening I have listened to a lot of cultural podcasts and webTV in Dutch, including a 12 minute lecture about Hans van Meegeren, who painted several paintings in Vermeer's style and sold them as Vermeers to Dutch museums, where learned art specialist were swooning about these newfound treasures. Unfortunately Göring bought one, and after the was van Meegeren was accused of selling natural treasures to the enemy. To avoid a harsh punishment he had to acknowledge that he had forged the paintings himself, and he proved it by painting one painting more under supervision. Then the learned hypocrits suddenly all could see that the celebrated paintings on the museum walls weren't genuine...


Edited by Iversen on 01 June 2010 at 8:12pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1859 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 1:59am | IP Logged 
Today is Saturday, and I have actually had plenty of time to study languages.

RU: во второй половине дня скопировал от руки несколько страниц из моего российской истории книга и записал незнакомые слова, которые я потом вставить в список слов. Это доказанный и простой метод, который также могу использовать для книг, которые я фактически уже читал - когда вы замедлить путем копирования текст вручную, вам будет всегда найти новые проблемы, которые Вы рассмотрел на первый раз. На этот раз я читал о древних городах Суздаль и Владимир, как я на самом деле посещал, и о основании Москвы.

GR: Τότε έκανε ακριβώς το ίδιο πράγμα με το ελληνικό, χρησιμοποιώντας μια τουριστική οδηγό για Αθήναι που θα έχουν αγοραστεί κατά την τελευταία επίσκεψή μου στην πόλη. Τóτε που έκανα αυτό ήταν κατά τύχη ένα πρόγραμμα για τους Μινωίτες στην History Channel ... και ακριβώς αυτή τη στιγμή κοιτάζω στον τηλεóρασι μου και βλέπω μια επίδειξη για τούς Μινωίτες! Αλλά αυτό τη επίδειξη έχω δει πριν λιγó. Όπως ήταν αναμενόμενο, το συμπέρασμα ήταν ότι η αλήθεια Ατλαντίδα είναι Σαντορίνη.

IT: Ho anche visto su Rai uno (televisione Italiana) il "Passaggio al Norte-Ovest", oggi con tra l'altro un tratto su un castello pentagonale al norte di Roma, il Palazzo Farnese or Villa Caprarola presso di Viterbo. Come il nome indica fu costruita (e ricostruita) da membri della riccha famiglia Farnese - e tutti i pareti e soffitti son decorati con dipinti e freschi.

--

I began this afternoon by copying some pages from my Russian history book (the one with the accents), making a note about unknown words and reusing them in a wordlist. Actually I have been through the book once already, but when you copy the text by hand you slow down the process so much that you find a lot of problems you just skipped over the first time. Today I dealt with the pages about the old towns

I did exactly the same thing with Greek, where I used a guide book in Greek which I bought in Athens during my last visit. You will find these books everywhere where tourists might come, they are reasonably priced and often translated into several languages, including Greek. Speeking about Greek: I have watched a program about the Minoans, which started out with th4e Greek tale about Minotaurus, continued with Evans and ended up with the current view, namely that the real Minoan culture (whose writing hasn't been decoded) was smashed by the volcanic eruption on Santorini, and that the Myceneans and other mainland Greeks seized the opportunity to conquer the island and impose their own culture. And by chance: while I was writing the Greek version I peeked at my TV set and saw another program about the Minoans - though I knew this one already.

Speaking about TV: RAI uno showed a program in the series "The North-West passage", this time (among other things) about the Villa Caprarola near Viterbo in Italy. It is pentagonal like the Pentagon and was conceived as a fortress, but Alessandro Farnese got it changed into a real palace with paintings and frescoes all over the place. Weird place - I'll try to visit it next time I'm in the area.

EN: I even found time for a bit of Irish, using my trusty old Teach Yourself. I chanced upon the chapters about the verbs, where one of the funny details is that Irish sometimes uses flexives, sometimes unstressed pronouns to indicate the number and person of verbs (which of course are put at the beginning of normal sentences). With some forms it also uses particles, such as 'do' before the past tense (and this 'do' entails aspiration of the initial consonant of the verb: "dúnaim" I close, "do dhunas" i closed), - though the 'o is dropped before vowels and aspirated f --> fh, which is silent (!). And sometimes 'do' is just dropped altogether, but only before a consonant. I can see the system, but I'm don't feel I'm ready to start writing in the language yet - after all I can't give Irish more than an hour or two every week, which clearly isn't enough.


Edited by Iversen on 30 May 2010 at 4:10pm

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Wise owl chick
Senior Member
Ecuador
Joined 3450 days ago

122 posts - 137 votes 
Studies: English

 
 Message 1860 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 12:00pm | IP Logged 
Wow, it seems that Irish is extremely complicated. Have Welsh or Scottish this difficulties also?


Iversen wrote:
Deze avond heb ik vooral geluisterd naar Nederlands web-TV, met inbegrip van een 12 minuten durende lezing over Hans van Meegeren, die werd zeer succesvol als hij begint beelder van 'Vermeer' te malen. Toch hij was beschuldigd om te hebben Nationaalklenodien verkocht an Hermann Göring - en om een strenge straf voor dit verkoop van de nationale schatten aan een nazi te vermijden, moest hij bewijzen dat hij zelf de schilderijen had gemaakt. En zo kon de hypocriete kunstkenners plotseling goed zien dat het echt niet schilderijen van Vermerer waren.


Dat is wel grappig. Hij moest heel veel talent hebben gehad.

Trouwens, hoe lang moet je wachten hier op eht forum todat het forum alle jouw links niet meer helemaal kapot maakt en zoiets schrijft als "bedankt om deel te nemen in de oorlog tegen de spammers"? Ik had naar een woordenboeken willen linken, en wat eruit kwam was volledige volapük (jouw woord voor zulke troep). Ook andere links van perosnen die al heel lang bezoekn worden ook kapot gemaakt. Welk zin heeft het hier überhaput goede links te geven of copieren? men zou hier wel een tijdje aan moeten werken om alle die technische fouten te repareren.
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Iversen
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 Message 1861 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 4:09pm | IP Logged 
DU: Van Meegeren was een zeer getalenteerd kunstenaar, maar ik denk nu dat je kunt het verschil in stijl tussen hem en Vermeer zien. Op BR alpha (een Duitse radiozender dat je kunt zien van de Astra satellieten) was er eens een serie uitzendings met een oude schilder, die een weinig aan van Meegeren herinnerd. Zijn naam was Tom Keating, en ik heb zes shows met hem op VHS-tape waar hij maakt schilderijen in de stijl van oude meesters: een Van Gogh, een Rembrandt, een Constable*, een Renoir, een Cezanne en een Monet. In ieder programm heeft hij een meester geimiteert en zijn techniek uitgelegd. Zijn vervanger Bob Ross is helaas alleen in staat om bergen met een bosmeer en dennenbomen op de voordergrund te malen.

IT: Ho appena visto un programma nella televisione danese di due fratelli Italiani, Achille e Gianbattista Judeca, che hanno costruito negli anni sessanta una istallazione che poteva intercettare le comunicazioni tra gli astronauti/cosmonauti e 'Terra'. La gente di NASA si sono scioccate quando i fratelli potevano presentare un nastro con i messaggi di John Glenns dallo spazio, e i russi erano molto immusiti, quando tradivano un fallimento segreto che ha costato la vita di almeno uno cosmonauta. Come al solito in Danimarca le interviste sono state pubblicato nella lingua originale con sottotitoli.

DU: Ik weet helaas niet hoe lang je moet wachten, voordat je kunt links creëren die werken - maar het schrijven in platte tekst gaat ook.

-

Van Meegeren was definitely a talented artist, but personally I think that I can see that his style (as it is seen in the painting "Christus in Emmaus") is different from that of Vermeer. Which just goes to show that you can't trust art experts - their opinions can definitely be influenced by wishful thinking and group pressure. Van Meegeren reminds me of the excellent Tom Keating, who had a series of programs on BR Alpha (a German TV station) where he produced paintings in the style of old masters - I have 6 of them on tape: Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Constable*, Renoir, Cezanne and Monet. And while you saw him paint the pictures he explained how each painter built their works, often during a very complicated process in several stages. Unfortunaly he died, han his successor can paint anything but distant mountains with dark forest lakes and spruces in the foreground.   

(* I could only find the program about Constable on the internet, and the picture quality is not good enough to se the finer details)

I have seen a program on Danish TV about two Italian brothers who during the early part of the space race built their own radio receiver station so that they could listen to the communication between astronauts/cosmonauts and 'Earth'. They shocked NASA when they could produce a tape with the voice of John Glenn from space, and later on the Russians became very annoyed when they published details about a failed space mission which cost at least one cosmonaut her life.

And last but not least: I simply don't know when new members can publish working links.


Edited by Iversen on 30 May 2010 at 9:25pm

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josht
Diglot
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 Message 1862 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 7:18pm | IP Logged 
Ah, how I envy your Russian history book with accents.
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Wise owl chick
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Ecuador
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122 posts - 137 votes 
Studies: English

 
 Message 1863 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 9:09pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DU: Van Meegeren was een zeer getalenteerd kunstenaar, maar ik denk nu dat je kunt het verschil in stijl tussen hem en Vermeer zien. Op BR alpha (een Duitse radiozender dat je kunt zien van de Astra satellieten) was er eens een serie uitzendings met een oude schilder, die een weinig aan van Meegeren herinnerd. Zijn naam was Tom Keating, en ik heb zes shows met hem op VHS-tape waar hij maakt schilderijen in de stijl van oude meesters: een Van Gogh, een Rembrandt, een Constable, een Renoir, een Cezanne en een Monet. In ieder programm heeft hij een meester geimiteert en zijn techniek uitgelegd. Zijn vervanger Bob Ross is helaas alleen in staat om bergen met een bosmeer en dennenbomen op de voordergrund te malen.


Wat Tom Keating deed zou ik moeten zien want misschien zal ik kunst studeren (volgend jaar maar het kan ook tuineren worden) en ik weet erg wenig over wat men moet doen om goed te schilderen. Ik doe wel kunst op school maar de lerares vertled niks over de techniek en toen ik met een leraar kunst sprak adviseerde hij mij om vaak te gaan tekenen en ik heb dus de tuin geschildert met een paar vogels, een eekhoorn, bloemen en andere dekoraties zoals een paar multikleuren windmolens (geen echte zoals het bloem malen maar de kleine soort die je in een tuincentrum ziet) ook een ijsje want een deel van het beeld was leeg, en in de zomer een ijsej in de tuin te zitten eten is leuk. Jammer dat ie dood is en dat de nieuwe neit zo veel kan.





Iversen wrote:


And last but not least: I simply don't know when new members can publish working links.


Ok, I will discover, maybe after 100 posts. But the people who visit since years can't publish them also, because this same corruption place a space in their links, but without the spammers' war infos.
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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 1864 of 3959
30 May 2010 at 9:15pm | IP Logged 
(summary moved)

Edited by Iversen on 07 June 2010 at 3:01pm



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