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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 2193 of 3959
01 January 2011 at 7:57pm | IP Logged 
Hva er en dansk julenisse?

I Norge er julenissen det samme som Santa Claus/ Father Christmas, og så har vi vanlige gårdsnisser som er små og har på seg grå klær (og nå i det siste, med barne-TV har vi fått blånisser).
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Anya
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 Message 2194 of 3959
01 January 2011 at 8:45pm | IP Logged 
С Новым годом!
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Meelämmchen
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 Message 2195 of 3959
01 January 2011 at 11:13pm | IP Logged 
This New Year's Concert had less flowers than the last year's! ;) And Georges Prêtre had also made quite an cooler appearance, didn't he? Have you read passportui on Russian in the break? Oh man, I actually don't like the Strauß's and such ceremonies, but I have my fun watching it. Oh, I am procrastinating... Good luck with your studies!
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Iversen
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 Message 2196 of 3959
02 January 2011 at 12:59am | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Hva er en dansk julenisse?

I Norge er julenissen det samme som Santa Claus/ Father Christmas, og så har vi vanlige gårdsnisser som er små og har på seg grå klær (og nå i det siste, med barne-TV har vi fått blånisser).


I Danmark har julenisser ALTID rød nissehue og det meste af deres tøj er normalt rødt, men grå trøjer o.l. forekommer også. Der er en ældre julenisse, som sidder på loftet og får sin julegrød, fordi et eller andet kvaj har skrevet i i en julesang at det skal han have (endda med smørklat). Denne knotne ældre herre er nok den sidste rest i Danmark af de potientielt farlige gamle gårdnisser, som man åbenbart stadig har i Norge. Men ingen af nisserne kan forveksles med julemanden, der er stor og fed og bor på Grønland, - men Finnerne har hans reklamebureau og forlystelsespark liggende lige udenfor Rovaniemi. Og Rudolf render vel rundt et eller andet sted i Finnmarken sammen med en af samernes hunrener. Blå nisser findes ikke i Danmark - de ville blive forvekslet med smølfer. Men vi har delvist engelsktalende nisser, der optræder på TV2 i "The Julekalender" (det er kun disse nisser der kan finde på at sige "Ah shit! It's på Danish!")   

To ye Anglophones. Solfried and I just compare Norwegian and Danish pixies. It seems that the Norwegian ones have stayed closer to the old farmhouse pixies, who could be very mean if they weren't treated with respect.



Edited by Iversen on 02 January 2011 at 1:17am

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Iversen
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 Message 2197 of 3959
03 January 2011 at 12:56pm | IP Logged 
I spent several hours yesterday listening first to Bahasa Indonesian, then Bahasa Malaysia through web TV stations, which I accessed through the portal wwitv.com. I can't really follow what they say, but recognize a lot of words so I must be fairly close. And the funny thing is of course that it works with both languages. I can hear a difference in intonation, with Indonesian being the more straightforward one and Malaysian weirdly reminding me of Swedish (!). On the lexical level the difference in the written forms seems to be at the level of Danish versus Norsk Bokmål, i.e. most words are identical or almost identical (Malaysian: English = Bahasa Inggeris, Indonesian: English = Bahasa Ingris), while some words are used in one language and not the other. But words from 'the other' variant can apparently be used rather freely, if my Singaporean guidebook and my printouts from the internet can be trusted.

During the whole evening I worked with other things while listening to mainly English on the TV, but I read a printout of the Wikipedia article about the medieval Georgian king David IV Aghmashenebeli ('the builder') in Russian before I fell asleep.
   
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Iversen
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 Message 2198 of 3959
05 January 2011 at 12:29am | IP Logged 
GER: Ich bin gerade damit fertig eine fast fertige stundenlange Sendung auf NDR über die Familie Hagenbeck zu sehen, - und damit habe ich auch vieles über den berühmten Zoo in Stellingen bei Hamburg gelernt. Aber sonst habe ich mein Abend meistens mit dem Studium neunorwegische Texte verbracht, was zu den Text unten geführt hat. Ich schreibe sonst eher in Norwegisch Bokmål (wie die meisten Norweger), aber ausnahmweise habe ich diesmal zuerst Bokmål geschrieben, dies aber dann teilweise (und tentativ) in Nynorsk umgewandelt bei der Verwendung von Wörtern, Redewendungen und Schreibweisen aus der neunorwegische Texte, die ich gesammelt habe.

NNO: Eg tenkte at det var på tide å gjøre noe for norska min, og det eg meist strev etter å gjøre er ju å presse meg i retning av nynorsk (selv om sunn fornuft tilsier å lære at skrive bedre bokmål). Så kvar ku eg finna noe nynorsk at studera? Vel, kva bettre enn nynorska Wikipediaens artikkel om nynorsk - på nynorsk? Og dit finns naturligtvis mye å lese om Ivar Aasen, som analyserte dei norske dialekta og skapte sit eige skriftspråk som etterhand har utvikla seg til nynorsk. Men Aasen vurderte dialektane i forhold til gammelnorskan, og så fann hann at dei på Vestlanna var meir "ekte" enn dei på Austlanna. Folk i aust og i Kristiania/Oslo likta ikkje detta, så det er no to offisielle skriftspråk i Noreg, og det er bokmål som klart dominerer. Berre 10-15% af innbyggjarane i Noreg nytta i dag av nynorsk. Men inga af dei svarer til noko einskild dialekt, og 80% af de norske nordmenn fra Noreg taler fremdeles dialekta si.

Eg leste artikkla, men brukte den òg aktivt. Mens eg leste, skreiv eg notat på bokmål som eit forstadium til dette her, men etter kvart som eg møtte motsvarande uttryk, ord og skrivemåder i texta korrigerte eg notatene så dei ble meir og meir nynorska (uten noen gong å nå målet). Etterpå røynde eg andra artikkler på nynorsk. Eg prøvde at søkja "Dovregubben" (= ein trollkung under Jotunheimen), men fann berre ein artikkel om Grieg's musikstykke "I Dovregubbens Hall" frå teaterstykket Peer Gynt. Om det skreiv Grieg sjølv: "Og så har jeg gjort noe til Dovregubbens hall, som jeg bokstavelig ikke kan tåle å høre på, således klinger det av kukaker, av norsknorskhed og sigselvnokhet."

Til slut leste eg bokmålsartikkla om Magnus Berrføtt, sønn av den fredelige Olav Kyrra, men sønnesøn af vikingkongen Harald Hårderåde som fall ved Stamfordbridge i England. Han var sjølv presis så stri som farfara si, og hann fall under et leidingatokt til Irskehavet. Faktisk gjorde hann ei alvarlig feil - trods det att hann hade en stor hær med seg, gikk han i land med nogle få folk og ble drebt af irene. Citat frå artikklen: "Ulster-annalene noterer kort for året 1103: Maghnus ri Lochlainni do marbad for chreich i nUlltaib - «Magnus, konge av Lochlainn, ble drept på et tokt i Ulster». Etter at norskekongen involverte seg i Irskesjøen skiftet Lochlainn mening. Fra å være skotskekysten, de ytre øyene og kanskje Man, betød det nå Norge." (så lærte vi også litt irsk!). Øyane (Hebriderne, Orkney etc.) tilfallt seinere skottekongen Jacob III, da kong Christiern I av Danmark/Noreg satte dem i pant for å finansiere medgifta for datter sin da hon sku bortgiftes til just skotkongen). Noko kortsynet... de er nå britiske og blir vel aldrei annat.

----

Right now I'm watching a program about volcanoes and the early history of life on this planet, including the terrifying Precambrian global iceball period and the following phase with the Ediacarian fauna which I have described earlier in this log. Before that I watched a program from the German TV station about the Hagenbeck family, who has kept the famous Zoo in Stellingen near Hamburg alive since 1913 (with an even older predecessor closer to the city centre).

But I have also found time to do some serious study of New Norwegian. First I found some texts in the corresponding version of Wikipedia, including the one about Nynorsk itself and one about Grieg's "In the hall of the Mountain king" (who actually is a big fat troll living under the mountain range Jotunheimen). You can see what the trolls are yelling in the article in the English Wikipedia here - pure blood and gore intended, but Mr. Gynt has the good luck to escape alive..

Nynorsk is actually just a standard for written Norwegian, and it goes back to an attempt by Ivar Aasen to create a written standard that could stop the use of Danish as the vehicle for writing Norwegian. The problem was that he compared the dialects and used Old Norwegian as his yardstick, and as might be expected he found that the dialects in the Western regions was 'purer' than those to the East, not to speak of the Danish-influenced dialects of Kristiania/Oslo. And people there didn't buy that so now the country has got two standards: nynorsk and bokmål - with just 10-15% using Nynorsk. Unfortunately I find Nynorsk much more colourful and it also suggests the true sound(s) of Norwegian better than the more Danish-influenced Bokmål.

Normally I stick with the overwhelming majority of the Norwegians and write in Bokmål, but today I wanted to experiment. In between reading the texts I had collected I wrote down some sketches for the message above in New Norwegian. Then I read through the New Norwegian texts again and every time I found something that could be used in my essay I inserted the New Norwegian version. Finally I checked some words - partly some I guessed or faintly remembered - with Google. The trick here is that you can limit your searches to New Norwegian by using your search term in conjunction with a uniquely New Norwegian word (for instance "korleis" (=how)). And the result can be seen above. Is it correct New Norwegian? Certainly not. But I have learnt some Nynorsk and enjoyed myself while making it.


Edited by Iversen on 06 January 2011 at 11:04am

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Iversen
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 Message 2199 of 3959
06 January 2011 at 12:38am | IP Logged 
GR: Έχω περάσει το μεγαλύτερο μέρος του βράδυ μελετώντας Έλληνες, η οποία περιελάμβανε κάνοντας λίστες λέξεων με λέξεις από του Αθηναίού οδηγού μου. Αλλά αυτό δεν προσφέρει πολύ ενδιαφέρον υλικό για ένα μήνυμα καταγραφής

I have spent most of the evening studying Greek, which included making wordlists based on my guidebook to Athens. But this didn't give much stuff to write about.
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Iversen
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 Message 2200 of 3959
06 January 2011 at 10:57am | IP Logged 
FR: J'aime bien étudier des langues nouvelles, mais il ne faut pas pour autant oublier celles on sait depuis longtemps. Je me suis trouvé devant un hiatus bref dans mes devoirs au travail et j'en ai profité pour lire quelques lignes en français. Comme d'habitude j'ai commencé par une recherche sur Google (est-ce qu'on peut dire 'googler' en français?) avec des termes bien choisis, et cela m'a conduit vers une page www.futura-sciences.com, ou l'on peut lire des textes courtes sur des thèmes scientifiques. Lá j'ai par example trouvé quelques informations sur le squelette féminin trouvé dans la grotte de Denisova (dans les montagnes de l'Altaï au sud de la Sibérie) et vieux d'environ 30.000 années ou plus. D'abord on a étudié son ADN mitochondrien (transmis uniquement de la mère aux enfants), puis on a pu séquencer une patie de son ADN, et il s'avère que cette petite fille n'était ni Homo sapiens, ni néanderthalien. Et on se demande: jusqu'à quel point avons nous le sapiens eu la compagnie d'autre espèces humaines sur ce planète? Il est bien connu qu'il a eu une survivance fortuite d'une autre espèce sur l'île indonésienne Flores, le célèbre 'hobbit' dont l'authenticité maintenant semble assurée. Cet hominide diminutif était probablement en ligne directe un descendant de l'Homo erectus, tandis que la fille de Denisova semble être plus proche a nous, mais quand-même: combien d'autres hommes/hominides y avait t-il au monde vers la fin de la dernière glaciation?

I had a free spare moment at my job today and promptly used it to read some French - it is OK to study new languages, but you also have to tend to the old ones. Through a Google search I found a French homepage with short messages about scientific themes (something like Science Today), www.futura-sciences.com, and here I found an ultrashort message about the skeleton of a girl found in a cave at Denisova in the Altai mountains in Siberia. She died somewhere between 30-48.000 years ago, and after studies first of her mitochondrial DNA and now her nucleotide DNA the conclusion is that she wasn't a Homo sapiens, nor a neanderthal. So now it appears that near he end of the last ice age we had not only a late (and diminutive) descendant of Homo erectus running around on the Indonesian island Flores, but also a distant cousin who lived in Siberia. And the question is: how many more whose bones just haven't been found yet?

By the way, another article(this time in English) suggest that Ötzi - whom I visited in November - doesn't have direct descendants in the modern world. But who wonders? After all Ötzi was the one who was killed.

FR: D'ailleurs j'ai eu une idée. La méthode que j'ai utilisé pour écrire quelque chose en Nouveaux-Norwegian approximatif pourrait aussi être employé pour écrire en par example l'ancien français ou occitan. Le problème lá est le même: quelques ressources pour comprendre des textes du moyen-âge, mais quasiment rien pour apprendre ces langues comme langues actives.

Edited by Iversen on 06 January 2011 at 2:46pm



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