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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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JonB
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 Message 329 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 3:07pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I would even be sceptical about university teachers who in quite general terms warn against Wikipedia. It is never nice to get competition, but Wikipedia would not be there if the 'professionals' had established an equally accessible source of information for the general public. And now they have to live with it, Grrrr


Iversen, they clearly don't have to live with it because they have banned it! Students who are caught using it lose marks or fail.

Serious scholars (postgrads and researchers, etc) would in any case never want to trust a source which can be written and edited by anyone in the world - regardless of knowledge or expertise!
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Fasulye
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 Message 330 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 3:17pm | IP Logged 
What an endless discussion about Wikipedia!!! Almost a never-ending story. I think that the arguments on both sides are very clear. I personally will use the Wiki for general information and for "serious" work I will rather rely on other sources to avoid the risk.

Therefore for me this topic is now finished.

Fasulye-Babylonia


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JonB
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 Message 331 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged 
The topic is finished for me too.

Runter mit Wikipedia und basta. Mehr gibt's da nicht zu sagen! :-D
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Fasulye
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 Message 332 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 3:51pm | IP Logged 
NL: Ik zit nou bij een openbare PC in de bieb (je moet ervoor een lezerskaart van de bieb hebben en dan mag je voor 1 uur internetten) en ik verwacht voor vanavond mijn Turkse studiepartner, als hij dan wel weer gezond is. Ik moet nog wat tijd overbruggen, dus ik zal ook eens kijken of ze hier boeken hebben die het paleontologische onderwerp van Iversen afhandelen. Of valt dat meer onder "Geowissenschaften", dus dat ga ik hier een beetje uitzoeken. De natuurwetenschappelijke afdeling van deze bieb is eigenlijk helemaal niet zo slecht (er zitten nauwelijks mensen in die afdeling, dat valt mij wel op). Dus dan ga ik hierover maar wat speurtocht plegen...

Fasulye-Babylonia



Edited by Fasulye on 19 February 2009 at 8:13pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 333 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 7:38pm | IP Logged 
GRUNDLAGE DER PALÄONTOLOGIE

DE: Oh je! Iversen legt hier paläntoglogische Sachverhalte dar und ich kenne mich mit dem Sachgebiet nicht aus. Soetwas muss ich direkt mal ändern! Wie beschrieben habe ich in unserer Bibliothek nachgeforscht, Paläontologie fällt unter das Fachgebiet "Historische Geologie". Da mir der Artikel in der Wikipedia etwas unstrukturiert erscheint (ich hatte ihn schon ausgedruckt!) habe ich in der Bibliothek jetzt ein Lehrbuch der Paläontologie gefunden und mir dort das ganze Kapitel "AUS DER GESCHICHTE DES LEBENS AUF DER ERDE" (von der Urzeit bis zum Ende der Kreidezeit) kopiert, das sind 100 Seiten. Das Buch hat kaum mit Dinosauriern zu tun, es geht eher um Fossilien von kleinen Pflanzen und Tieren, aber es werden alle Entwicklungsstufen der Erdzeitalter im Zusammenhang dargestellt, und diese Zusammenhänge waren mir bisher noch nicht klar. Heute habe ich schon sehr viele Seiten davon gelesen und ich hoffe, dass ich das Studienbuch in 1 1/2 Wochen durch habe. Vor dem Hintergrund dieses Buchwissens verstehe ich auch erst mein Poster "Ergeschichte im Überblick" richtig. Ich glaube das war wohl eine dringende Maßnahme, dass ich mich erstmal richtig sachkundig mache.

Also: Ich lese weiter...

Fasulye-Babylonia

PS: Bernhard Ziegler: Paläontologie, Vom Leben in der Vorzeit, Stuttgart, 2008

NL: Ik heb de indruk dat dit boek voor studenten paleontologie is geschreven, want het gebruikt de correcte vaktaal en geeft veel detailvoorbeelden (tekeningen). Als ik maar eens een vakbegrip niet begrijp, is het geen probleem. De voor mij relevante informatie kan ik goed volgen.

B.v. Bedoel je dat: "Der Lebensraum des Mittelkambriums am Burgess-Pass?"




Edited by Fasulye on 19 February 2009 at 9:11pm

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Iversen
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 Message 334 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 8:30pm | IP Logged 
DU: Ik ben blij dat je hebt o goede bibliotheek, waar je ook kunt gebruik maken voor vrij van een computer. Misschien is het niet mogelijk een boek te kunne vinden van paleontologie die 'up to date' is met de vroegste periodes met meercellige leven. Ik heb inderdat het meeste van dat wat ik weet over deze dingen geleerd uit tijdschriften of uit het internet, met inbegrip van de gevaarlijke site wiens naam begint met een "W".
EDIT: Maar nu heb ik tot mijn verrassing gezien dat je al een boek hebt gevonden - probeer eens om de boek iets van de Ediacaria en van Burgess vertelt!

DA: Vidste du/I at man kan få sit brugerinterface til Goggle på Elmer Fjottisk? Eller Klingon?
Did thou/you know that one can get one's user interface to Goggle on Elmer Fjott'ish (: Ewmew Fudd)? Or Klingon?
Did know that you can get a user interface to Goggle in Elmer Fjott'ish (: Ewmew Fudd)? Or in Klingon?

Det er imidlertid mindre vigtigt, hvad sprog man benytter til sit interface,
It is in-middle-time less important, what language one uses for one's interface,
It is however not very important which language you use for the interface,

- men desværre er udvalget af sprog til oversættelse ikke nær så stort,
- but that-worse is choiceThe of language(s) to translation not nearly so big,
- unfortunately the choice of languages for translation is not nearly as big,

og blandt dem der mangler er for eksempel Afrikansk, Islandsk og Latin.
and among them that lack are for example Afrikaans, Icelandic and Latin.
and among the missing ones you find for example Afrikaans, Icelandic and Latin.

Men det kommer vel engang.
But that comes well [I suppose] onetime.
But I suppose that will come later.

Jeg har jo lovet Fasulye at oversætte alt hvad jeg skriver på dansk her bogstaveligt,
I have [..] promised Fasulye to translate all what I write here on Danish lierally,
As you know I have promised Fasulye to translate everything that I write here in Danish (hyper)literally,

og så støder jeg naturligvis på ting der simpelthen ikke KAN oversættes direkte.
and then hit I naturally on things that simply not CAN translate-be directly.
and then I will of course run into things that simply cannot be translated directly.

Tag nu for eksempel det lille ord "jo" på dansk. Det er beslægtet med "ja",
Take now for example the little word "jo" on Danish". It is related with "yes",
Take for instance the small word "jo" in Danish". It is related to the word for 'yes' ("ja"),

men bruges inde i sætninger for at antyde at noget er en selvfølgelighed.
but used-Is inside in sentences for to suggest that something is an obviousness
but it is used inside sentences to suggest that something is obvious.

Men hvad hedder det på engelsk - bortset fra "y'know"?
But what "called-is" it on English - away-seen from "y'know"?
But what is the most direct translation, - apart from "y'know"?

Eller tag dansk "man", der bruges sammen med de refleksive stedord 'sin/sit' (ejefald) og "sig" (andre tilfælde).
Or take Danish "man", that used-is together with the reflexive pronouns 'sin/sit' (possesive) and "sig" (other cases)
Or take Danish "man", that is used in combination with the reflexive pronouns 'sin/sit' (possesive) and "sig" (other cases).

"Han slår sig" bliver til "he hits himself", fordi engelsk ikke længere HAR et upersonligt refleksivt stedord
"He hits (himself)", because English not longer HAS an unpersonal reflexive pronoun
"Han slår sig" becomes "He hits (himself)", because English simply hasn't got got an unpersonal reflexive pronoun anymore

(hvorimod russisk har "себя", der endda også bruges uændret i 1. og 2. person).
(whereagainst Russian has "себя", that even-then also used-is unchanged in 1. and 2. person).
(whereas Russian has got "себя", that even is used (unchanged) in the 1. and 2. persons).

På dansk betyder "Han slår sig" ikke at han slår sig selv bevidst,
On Danish means "Han slår sig" not that he hits [...] self consciently
In Danish "Han slår sig" does not that he hits himself consciently

- han støder blot ind i et eller andet, og så gør det ondt.
- he bumps just into in one or another(thing), and then it does evil.
- he bumps into something, and (then) it hurts.

Kun hvis han bevidst slår sig selv, hedder det "Han slår sig selv" - ligesom på engelsk.
Only if he consciently hits himself, called-is it "Hans slår sig selv" - straight-as on English.
Only if he deliberately hits himself you can have "han slår sig selv", as in English

"Man" (som stedord) er egentlig det samme ord som "mand" (som navneord),
"Man" is properly [fundamentally] the same word as "man" (as substantive (= male Hоmо sapiens)),
"Man" (as a pronoun) is in fact the same word as "man" (as a substantive),

men er på dansk et ubestemt personligt stedord, der end ikke angiver kønnet.
but is on Danish an indefinite personal pronoun that even-not indicates GenderThe.
but in Danish it is an indefinite personal pronoun which doesn't even refer to gender .

På engelsk bruges som bekendt det vildledende "you", og denne uskik breder sig desværre til dansk:
On English used-is as known det misleadning "you", and this badhabit spreads [itself] unfortunately to Danish,
In English you find the misleading "you", which unfortunately also has spread to Denmark,

hvor nogle engelsk-påvirkede personer nu systematisk siger "du" i stedet for "man".
where some English-influenced persons noew systematically say "du" (thou) instead of "man".
where some anglicized people now say "Du" instead of "man".

(Dame taler til Mand: "Når du får din første menstruation..") - sikke noget vås!
(Woman speaks to Man: "When you get your first menstruation...") - such some nonsense!
(Woman speaks to Man: "When you get your first menstruation...") - bull****!

Forresten, hvad hedder "at hedde" på engelsk?
For the rest (by the way): what [is-called] "to [be-is-called]" on English?
By the way: what is (the translation of) "at hedde" in English?

"At hedde" er aktivt på dansk, mens engelsk bruger en passiv vending "..at blive kaldt.. "
"To [be-is-called]" is active on Danish, while English uses a passive turning ""..to be called.."
"At hedde" is active in Danish, while English uses a passive construction "to be called .."

Den engelske konstruktion minder mig om russisk,
The English construction (re)minds me about Russian,
The English construction reminds me of Russian,

hvor man ikke 'har' noget: man siger "hos mig er ..."
where man not 'has' something: man says "with me is..."
where you don't 'have' something: you say "with me is...".

På dansk kan man dog også sige "jeg kaldes..", - men så hedder man det faktisk ikke.
In Danish can you however also say "jeg kaldes..", - but then is-called one it factually NOT.
In Danish you can in fact say "jeg kaldes..", - but then it is emphatically NOT your real name.

Kort sagt: Alt det skøjter de fine og sprogrette oversættelser bare henover,
Short said: All that skate the fine and language-right [idiomatic] translations just along-over,
In short: The 'good' idiomatic translations just skate (?) right over all this,

hvilket betyder at den der skal lære sproget lades i stikken.
which means that (the-one) that shall learn languageThe let-is in stickThe (approx. "is left to his own devices")
leaving the poor language learner to figure things out himself (or herself, if you are a lady).

I hope that the added third version makes all this a little easier to understand. Sometimes Fasulye quotes me so fast that I can't even find time to correct the spelling errors, but in this case she can't be blamed for quoting an outdatted version - it took me a while to make this triple version.




Edited by Iversen on 12 February 2013 at 12:28pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 335 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 8:50pm | IP Logged 
Ik heb dit weggehaald, want ik had te vroeg gereageerd.

Edited by Fasulye on 20 February 2009 at 7:08am

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SII
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 Message 336 of 3959
19 February 2009 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
RUS: Хватит о Википедии.. Я живу в городе с университетом, а также существует студенческий дом с академическим книжным магазином, и магазин имеет отдельный департамент, специализирующийся в славянских языках. Вчера я посетил книжный магазин и купил словари и грамматики нескольких славянских языков, стоимость около 1300 датских крон (170 €). Я купил среди прочего книгу Barrona 500 российских глаголов, сербский и польский грамматики и двусторонный (?) хорватский-aнглийский словарь. У меня уже есть в дополнение к русские словари и грамматики славянских небольшой коллекции, которая включает в себя большой польский словарь Лангеншейта и болгарский грамматик и словарь, - заполняет весь метр на моей полке! Теперь мне просто нужно узнать все эти языки, а это займет много лет. Может быть, мне также нужно покупать продления память на мой мозг, - не достаточно купить книгу.


Я живу в городе с университетом, а также студенческим домом (translation is correct, but I don't khow, what this is) с академическим книжным магазином, который имеет отдел, специализирующийся на ("в" is not mistake, but in this case better "на") славянских языках.

Word "департамент" in Russian uses only for departments of government or commercial structures (департамент Министерства иностранных дел, департамент по работе с клиентами); in most cases uses "отдел" or "отделение" (отдел магазина, отделение больницы). And for departments of departments of government or commercial structures often uses "отдел" or "отделение".

Вчера я посетил книжный магазин и купил словари и грамматические справочники (or "учебники по грамматике") нескольких славянских языков стоимостьЮ около 1300 датских крон (170 €).

Я купил среди прочего книгу Баррона "500 русских глаголов, сербский и польский грамматические справочники и двустороннИй хорватскО-aнглийский словарь.

In Russian names of books, ships, cinemas and many others may be quoted. Geographic names is not quoted. For exapmle: корабль (ship) "Москва", гостиница (hotel) "Москва" but город (city) Москва, река (river) Москва. And name of author writes by Russian.

У меня уже есть в дополнение к русские словари и грамматики славянских небольшой коллекции, которая включает в себя большой польский словарь Лангеншейта и болгарский грамматик и словарь, - заполняет весь метр на моей полке!

This sentence has some mistakes, and I don't understand what it means. Maybe:

В дополнение к русским у меня уже есть небольшая коллекция словарей и грамматических справочников других славянских языков, которая включает (or включающая) польский словарь Лангеншейта и болгарские грамматический справочник и словарь, - она занимает на моей полке целый метр!

Теперь мне просто нужно выучить/изучить все эти языки, а это займет много лет.

Может быть, мне также нужно купить дополнительную (хорошую, долгую...) память для моих мозгов - книгу купить недостаточно.

In Russian often use plural "мозги" in sentences as it. And verb "недостаточно" in this case may be written without space.

Edited by SII on 19 February 2009 at 11:09pm



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