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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3881 of 3959
28 May 2015 at 1:43pm | IP Logged 
Last week I only found time to sit in my armchair to do armchair studies once, and so far this has continued. But last evening I did sit in that hallowed place with a note stand filled with green Russian grammar sheets and a pile of Russian dictionaries, and then I did some translation exercises. After that I made repetitions of old Russian wordlists with the setup where I copy the Danish translations and then have to supply the Russian original words. And finally I went through several pages in "Le guide de conversation Routard", a small book with French sentences that illustrate some key word (ordered alphabetically) and a Russian translation for each (including pronunciation directives).

Contrary to most language guides this one isn't specifically targeted towards travellers, and as I said, the topic words are organized alphabetically - but otherwise the format ressembles that of a language guide. I bought it long ago, but didn't use it because I felt it blurred my sense of the Russian expressions, but now I basically understand those and the main point of the exercise is to train how to react fast with suitable utterances.

The problem with all such books is that the translations aren't literal so the Russian sentence may actually say something quite different from the French one even though they are used in similar situations. I prefer those which like Kauderwelsch and the Assimil pocket guides also provide a hyperliteral translation.



Edited by Iversen on 28 May 2015 at 3:49pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3882 of 3959
01 June 2015 at 1:42pm | IP Logged 
This weekend I have had lots of time to sit in my arcmchair studying languages, but I couldn't even find one minut to switch on my computer – it is a strange world we live in!

SE: Студирао сам међу осталим српским употреба збирку текстова двојезичних, од којих је већина фокусирају на птице, али поред тога је било делова почетној страници градске библиотеке Суботице. Ја сам прошла кроз овај град, који је последња станица пре Мађарској, али никад није посетио.

RU: Был один текст на русском языке в сборнике, текст на необитаемом острове в Черногории возле Игало который называется мамуля. Оно было дано это имя, как Австро-Венгерская генерал построил крепость на островке, и он назывался мамуля. Но прежде она была названа "Ластавица" (ласточка), так что вы найдете ссылку на птиц. Последние новости: Черногория подписали 49-летный контракт с швейцарской компанией Orascom на острове, где планирает туристический курорт с пяти-звездочный отель.

GR: Επιπλέον, σπουδασα ελληνικά: Βρήκα λίγο μπλε και πολύ παλιά Teach Yourself μου και εχω ελέγξει ότι ήξερα τα πάντα ήταν εκεί στα πρώτα μαθήματα. Και τα κατάφεραν, αν και οφείλω να ομολογήσω ότι είχα παραβλέπεται το γεγονός ότι υπάρχει μια παρατυπίας κτητική μορφή του αριθμό "τέσσερις": "τεσσάρων". Μήπως αυτό ανήκουν πραγματικά στα πρώτα μαθήματα σε ένα βιβλίο για αρχάριους;

Apart from that I have done wordlist repetitions in Russian and Indonesian, read some pages in a Pocket Assimil for Maltese and watched television in a number of languages including, but not restricted to Serbian & Montenegrin, Norwegian, German, French and Spanish.
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Iversen
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 Message 3883 of 3959
03 June 2015 at 10:28pm | IP Logged 
I have been scrutinizing translations by Google Translation lately to find some regularities in the way it fails. I wouldnt expect it to deliver pretty and perfectly correct translations all the time and with all language combinations, but sometimes it frankly could do better. One of my etsts is to let it translate something in a given language back to the same language, and I have seen it go really berserk with this simple exercise - even in cases where it delivered a reasonable translation into some other language. In this situation it has a tendency to write some words in all capital lettters, and I suspect this is some kind of marker in a pseudo-English middle stage. For example the beginning of Rimbaud's drunk boat goes from

Comme je descendais des Fleuves impassibles,
Je ne me sentis plus guidé par les haleurs :
Des Peaux-Rouges criards les avaient pris pour cibles,
Les ayant cloués nus aux poteaux de couleurs

to

Comme je descendais des Fleuves impassibles,
Je me NE Sentis Plus Guide Par les haleurs:
Des Peaux-Rouges criards les avaient Prix verser CIBLES,
Les Ayant Cloues nus aux poteaux de couleurs

("verser" is a translation of not the French, but the English word "pour" - and down the drain goes the grammatical coherence when such things happens).

In Italian the same stanza certainly gets its share of translation errors, but it is not full of those ugly capitalized words:

Mentre camminavo lungo i fiumi impassibili,
Non mi sentivo più me guidare da autotrasportatori:
Redskins Gaudy li aveva preso per obiettivi,
L'aver inchiodato li nudo pali colorati

"autotrasportatori" - hehe. They were not even invented in Rimbaud's days. Gaudy redskins, well maybe..

And now for something about Neanderthalers and their vocalizations:

RO: Cu ajutor Googlei (Googlui?) am făcut mai multe colecții noi de texte bilingve, inclusiv un în limba română. Pe această pagină aveau cel puțin zece texte despre omul de Neanderthal - unele cu clipuri video, inclusiv un video cu încercarea de a restabili glasul unui neanderthaler. Din păcate, acest video este blocat pe pagina română, dar pe Youtube puteți auzi un reconstrucție similară. Și conform aceasta un puternic Neanderthal bărbat a țipat ca babele nebune din Monty Python. Sper sincer ca aceasta reconstrucție nu să fie exactă...

Google translate translates this as follows:

With help GOOGL (GOOGL?) I made several new collections of bilingual texts, including one in Romanian. On this page they had at least ten texts about Neanderthal - some with videos, including a video with trying to restore voice a neanderthaler. Unfortunately, this video is blocked on Romanian, but YouTube can hear a similar reconstruction. And according to this a strong Neanderthal man screamed like crazy old ladies from Monty Python. I sincerely hope that this reconstruction is not exact ...

Several phrases here are perfect or almost perfect, but where did 'page' ("pagina") go? And why didn't Google identify "puteți" as the 2. person plural and translate it as "you can"?


Edited by Iversen on 04 June 2015 at 12:08am

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tarvos
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 Message 3884 of 3959
03 June 2015 at 11:07pm | IP Logged 
Aș scrie cu ajutorul lui Google.

Despre puteți - gramatica ta nu este cea mai comună - românii aș spune puteți să auziți
(cu coniunctivul). Eu cred că puteți să ascultați este încă mai idiomatic.

Edited by tarvos on 04 June 2015 at 5:17am

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Iversen
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 Message 3885 of 3959
04 June 2015 at 8:06am | IP Logged 
Clauzele subordonate cu subjunctiv după un verb este construcția normală, dar verbul "a putea" este o excepție pentru că aici puteți să utilizaţi infinitivul - o oportunitate rara!

Google:
"puteți auzi": 30700 exemple
"puteți să auziți": 31000 exemple

"încercaţi auzi": 3 exemple (și toți trei sunt lipsiţi de relevanță)
"încercaţi să auziți": 15.200 exemple

Edited by Iversen on 04 June 2015 at 8:10am

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tarvos
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 Message 3886 of 3959
04 June 2015 at 8:34am | IP Logged 
Știu că e posibil - doar am vrut să spun că nu este construcția cea mai preferată.
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glavkos
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 Message 3887 of 3959
04 June 2015 at 7:14pm | IP Logged 
Permit me a correction for GR: Επιπλέον, σπούδασα ελληνικά: Βρήκα τα λίγα μπλε και
πολύ παλιά Teach Yourself μου και έχω ελέγξει ότι ήξερα τα πάντα που ήταν εκεί στα πρώτα
μαθήματα. Και τα κατάφερα, αν και οφείλω να ομολογήσω ότι είχα παραβλέψει το γεγονός
ότι υπάρχει μια παράτυπη κτητική μορφή του αριθμού "τέσσερις": "τεσσάρων". Μήπως αυτό
ανήκει πραγματικά στα πρώτα μαθήματα σε ένα βιβλίο για αρχάριους;

Iversen wrote:
This weekend I have had lots of time to sit in my arcmchair studying
languages, but I couldn't even find one minut to switch on my computer – it is a
strange world we live in!

SE: Студирао сам међу осталим српским употреба збирку текстова двојезичних, од
којих је већина фокусирају на птице, али поред тога је било делова почетној страници
градске библиотеке Суботице. Ја сам прошла кроз овај град, који је последња станица пре
Мађарској, али никад није посетио.

RU: Был один текст на русском языке в сборнике, текст на необитаемом острове в
Черногории возле Игало который называется мамуля. Оно было дано это имя, как Австро-
Венгерская генерал построил крепость на островке, и он назывался мамуля. Но прежде она
была названа "Ластавица" (ласточка), так что вы найдете ссылку на птиц. Последние
новости: Черногория подписали 49-летный контракт с швейцарской компанией Orascom на
острове, где планирает туристический курорт с пяти-звездочный отель.

GR: Επιπλέον, σπουδασα ελληνικά: Βρήκα λίγο μπλε και πολύ παλιά Teach Yourself
μου και εχω ελέγξει ότι ήξερα τα πάντα ήταν εκεί στα πρώτα μαθήματα. Και τα κατάφεραν,
αν και οφείλω να ομολογήσω ότι είχα παραβλέπεται το γεγονός ότι υπάρχει μια παρατυπίας
κτητική μορφή του αριθμό "τέσσερις": "τεσσάρων". Μήπως αυτό ανήκουν πραγματικά
στα πρώτα μαθήματα σε ένα βιβλίο για αρχάριους;

Apart from that I have done wordlist repetitions in Russian and Indonesian, read some
pages in a Pocket Assimil for Maltese and watched television in a number of languages
including, but not restricted to Serbian & Montenegrin, Norwegian, German, French and
Spanish.


Edited by glavkos on 05 June 2015 at 1:08pm

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Iversen
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berejst.dk
Joined 4890 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3888 of 3959
05 June 2015 at 9:31am | IP Logged 
Thanks to Glavkos for the correction - sometimes I should check my messages better, especially in languages where my inbuilt error correction device is slow and unreliable. The old blue Teach Yourself is definitely one book anbd should be referred to using the singular forms. EDIT: and this comment includes the original position of "înainte" in the remark in Romanian below (I had corrected the sentence and left it after "momentul").

And yes Tarvos, I know that the special use of infinitive after a putea is an exception and liable to be done with as part of an ongoing process.

Am continuat studiul meu Neanderthalelor în limba română, printre altele pentru a citi un articol care spune că neanderthalienii din Europa probabil au dispărut înainte de momentul unde Homo sapiens a venit.

Edited by Iversen on 08 June 2015 at 7:48am



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