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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Pablo_V
Bilingual Tetraglot
Newbie
Spain
Joined 3112 days ago

22 posts - 39 votes
Speaks: Spanish*, Galician*, English, Portuguese
Studies: French

 
 Message 2449 of 3959
05 June 2011 at 5:42pm | IP Logged 
Kuikentje wrote:
HOla Pablo Quinto:


Bienvenido en este hilo muy amable del señor Iversen, qui es amigo mío y quien habla un montón de
idiomas.

Pablo_V wrote:


Meanwhile, on the other side, the living Galician, the one which is spoken here and there ans used by most
of the popularion, is a bit different. There are many versions of Galician, shall we say: it changes as you
move from one place to another. And that makes it complex and, no doubt, rich.


I like that, many languages do that and it's so interesting!!!

Pablo wrote:


Nowadays, Galician is said to be a dialect of Portuguese. But we could ask: which one is the dialect and
which one is the proper language? Galician and Portuguese were, in their beginning, the same thing. But
political issues led Galicia and Portugal to be different countries and, therefore, Galician and Portuguese to
be different languages.


yes, I agree, but this is with all the languages versus dialects: one variety was become the standard and all
the others the dialects, and the choice was politic.

Pablo wrote:
Today there are attempts to set a standard for Galician which is similar to Portuguese. The
main reasons
are political ones (the will of nationalism, who is trying to set apart from Spain and, of course,
Spanish).


Would you prefer that Galicia were part of Portugal, or a separate country? And the Leonese? In Belgium
it's a linguistic divide without end, mostly without a national government because the Flemish and Walloons
can't agree!! people say that the country will split, but how? I suppose Flanders -> Netheralnds and
Wallonia -> France, but this is an enormous change, and often the Flemish hate the Dutch, and Walloons
hate the French haha! Not a good solution.

Pablo wrote:
My two cents? Galician is a language on its own. Although it shares a lot with Portuguese
(Dutch and
German share a lot too, as far as I know). That is an unfair advantage for those who, like me, speak
Galician: fluency in Portuguese is just one stop away for us.


then it's not necessary join with Portugal (linguistically necessary I mean). Yes, Dutch and German share
truly a lot too, and the many dialects between are the link.


Pablo wrote:

Thank you for your kind attention. Forgive me if I mispelled any word or so -my iPad tríes to write Spanish


Dont' worry, my laptop tries to write nothing at all but he would like a tea break ahahahaah!!



Hi, kulkentje.

The V. stands for my surname. But it could mean "quinto" as well (fifth formthose who don't speak Spanish
yet). In fact, Carlos V, aka Carlos I in Germany, set a precedent in that sense. ;-)

I have read a few posts of Iversen's, including his useful Guides. I appreciate his effort and find his
testimonial as one of the most encouraging ones in this site. I wish I could speak so many languages as he
does speak. In fact, I will do my best to reach that goal. And your mother tongue is the next one in my hit
list!

Regarding the political issue, I think that Galicia is a part of Spain. It has been for many centuries (Portugal
was too, but not for so long!). And, although I respect any other opinion, I think Galician is different from
Portuguese (not better, not worse, just different) and must be that way (although the Portuguese model may
help when reconstructing Galician, so to speak).

Well, I must leave: la huitiéme leçon d'Assimil is waiting for me sur la table. Thanks for your kind attention.
We keep in touch. :-)

Pablo


1 person has voted this message useful



Pablo_V
Bilingual Tetraglot
Newbie
Spain
Joined 3112 days ago

22 posts - 39 votes
Speaks: Spanish*, Galician*, English, Portuguese
Studies: French

 
 Message 2450 of 3959
05 June 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged 
Kuikentje wrote:
Pablo_V wrote:


We must point that Galician was not promoted during Franquism (1936-1975). That led to a language which
was used in the countryside and mostly by "humble" people, since Spanish was the language used in
schools and Universities, as well as in the Administration.




I've read that during Franquism all the languages and dialects were banned, all the world must speak
Castillian only. But I thoguht as well that Franco was Galician???!!!


You are right, Kulkentje. No other language, apart from Spanish, was allowed. At least, not in "formal"
circumstances, so to speak (schools, Universities, public service...).

Anyway, Galician (and Catalonian and Basque) was spoken and alive in many homes, mostly on the
countryside. And, although its use was not encouraged, it was not strictly forbidden. It was, shall we say,
tolerated.

And yes, Francisco Franco was Galician. He was born in Ferrrol, a town in the north of Galicia, by the sea
(a great port). That town even changed its name to "Ferrol del Caudillo" during franquism (Caudillo is Fúhrer
or Duce, to provide two meaningful synonims). Anyway, that name is no longer official.

So there is a sort of a paradox here, isn't it? I guess many times those who love a language the most are
not those who are expected to. Fortunately, there are sites like this one. And people like you, friends, who
appear like a remedy for those situations, loving languages from every corner of the globe. That's amazing!

Pablo
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2452 of 3959
07 June 2011 at 1:18am | IP Logged 
Kuikentje wrote:
Yes, well, I like all the little languages and dialects and find it nasty that the more spread ones have deleted them, it's the situation in Wallonia as well but all the ones interest me, for example gallego, scots, etc
I will reply your posts more tomorrow or the day after, I'm so busy becuase I want to get my diploma and end my education, high school I mean, and I am tired after such concentration but I'm ok, escribiré más mañana, hasta luego.


I have just returned from a whirlwind tour to Spain, and I have pleasantly surprised to see my thread being kept alive by a lively discussion about Gallego. Actually I have not visited Galicia since 1991, where my language interest was fairly low, but I have since then heard Galician several times on TV and through the internet, and I have read texts in several of the competing ortographies. Just to give the readers something concrete to look at, let me quote a passage from a brochure in Gallego from the Thyssen-Bornemisza museum in Madrid:

GAL: Benvidos ó museo Thyssen-Bornemisza
As obras de arte que se presentan aquí foron reunidas pola familia Thyssen-Bornemisza ó logo de dúes xeracións. A parte máis numerosa e importante da colección Thyssen-Bornemisza foi adquirida polo Estado español en xullo de 1993.


It is clear that this is close to Portuguese, but still different on several points. But written texts alone can't be trusted in this kind of comparisons, and with my limited exposure to spoken Galician I'm not going be too affirmative in my utterances about its status.

SP: Como mencionado sopra he pasado unos días en España. Tuve un día en Madrid, un día en Palma (de Mallorca) y un día en Barcelona (y Can Pastilla) y un día en Girona. Para utilizar mi tiempo en el modo més efectivo había elegido vueles en la mañana o en la ultima parte de la tarde, así que tenía por lo menos 6-8 horas para las actividades turísticas en cada lugar.

CA: He parlat amb força gents durant el meu viatje, però sense tenir converses llargues i complicades. Un dels episodis més curiosos va ser quan el recepcionista del meu hotel a Can Pastilla a prop de Palma em parlava en el dialecte de les Balears - va durar unes poques frases abans que m'hagués acostumat a això, perquè fins llavors he només sentit parlar el català català de Catalunya. Una grande diferència és que l'article determinat es alguna cosa amb 's', no 'l' (encara que he sentit molts 'l' quan vaig escoltar a la gent en els carrers i en autobuses i trens). L'edifici dels trenes i autobuses a Palma és anomenat "Ses Estacions" (= els estacions en català català). Em record la llengua Cerdenyà que vaig estudiar breument en la setmana passada i ón el article definit havia formes similares amb s- ... però no sé si hi ha més que una pura coincidència darrera d'això.

I'm thinking about making a video about this kind of ultra-hectic travelling, using this latest trip as an example (and of course speaking about it in Spanish and Catalan).

GER: PS: tatsächlich war Karl/Carlos Nummer 5 in Deutschland und Nummer 1 in Spanien.


Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 12:18am

1 person has voted this message useful



Alacritas
Tetraglot
Newbie
Portugal
Joined 3112 days ago

24 posts - 41 votes
Speaks: English*, French, Portuguese, Spanish
Studies: Dutch, German, Latin, Bulgarian

 
 Message 2453 of 3959
07 June 2011 at 3:05pm | IP Logged 
Iversen,

I love reading your log! It's a real inspiration. I don't understand all of it, but I
try to decipher some of the more transparent languages you write in for fun (like
Romanian, for example). It's so interesting to see how an advanced polyglot goes about
studying and learning languages!

I'd like to do a Log of my own, to keep me motivated and learning, and write it in the
languages I'm currently studying. Thanks for inspiring me!


Alacritas

Edited by Alacritas on 07 June 2011 at 3:06pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



Pablo_V
Bilingual Tetraglot
Newbie
Spain
Joined 3112 days ago

22 posts - 39 votes
Speaks: Spanish*, Galician*, English, Portuguese
Studies: French

 
 Message 2454 of 3959
07 June 2011 at 5:39pm | IP Logged 
Hi, iversen.

I will try to tell what I had already told (I just posted your quote, but not my thoughts, I don't know why,
maybe for the length of the itself).

It's nice to know you have enjoyed your stay in Spain. Should you come in thhe near future, let us know
and, who knows, we may even have a conversation -although not in ten languages, unless you want it to
become a monologue. :)

Regarding Galician, I agree with you: it is close to Portuguese, although different, as the fellow members of
this site can realize when reading that text you copied.

About Carlos V, I don't speak German yet. And this may be what you wrote in that language. Or not.
Anyway, my teacher used to say that being the fifth in Germany but the first in Spain was an epiphany.
Why? Because that is what happens most of the times. The one (person, product, idea or whatever) which
is the fifth in Germany is, no matter that, the first here. Their worst can be our best. Just an idea and a
piece of our reality. ;)

Thanks, Iversen, for your posts and, beyond that, your incredible testiomonial. When I grow old, I want to
be a polyglot like you.

Hasta pronto,

Edited by Pablo_V on 08 June 2011 at 12:58am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2455 of 3959
07 June 2011 at 7:40pm | IP Logged 
Thanks to Alacritas for reading and appreciating this log

Thanks to Pablo V for contributing, but I think you forgot to write something in that last message [EDIT: corrected now]

Thanks to Iberia for reminding me that the world isn't perfect. I had to bring their flight magazine back home because the space between the rows in their planes is so narrow that you cannot even open their 'Ronda' flight magazine and turn the pages without sliding the pages against the seat in front of you. And buying something to eat when the table is moving up and down when you breath isn't an option. In that situation it is slightly provoking that they hire FOUR Michelin star cooks to prepare the meals for the rich guys on first class (where there is space enough to eat). But now I'm going to study the culinary vocabulary in that magazine. The good thing about such magazine from non-Anglophone companies is that they are bilingual. Something it doesn't make much of a difference, but gourmet food hasn't been one of my main study subjects so here it is welcome.

I have made it a habit o' mine to bring back scientific and touristic magazines from my holidays, but this time it didn't work out that way. I wanted to buy then just before leaving Girona, but the Relay at the railway station was closed, and although I walked around in the neighbourhood for almost 40 minutes I didn't find another kiosk. In the airport there were mostly English and Spanish magazines, but also a small selection of books in Catalan. I bought one called "Tot el que sempre has volgut saber sobre Cataluny (i ningú t'ha explicat mai)". It contains anecdotes and weird facts and lists. One of the things you learn is that Catalunya has abolished the exception in the laws against animal cruelty that permitted traditional bullfightning. It will be illegal in Catalunya from 2012. Actually I did know that, but I didn't know exactly which parties voted for and against that law. Here you can read the exact numbers. Grosso modo Convergència i Uniò, Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya and Iniciativa per Catalunya voted for the abolishment, while Partit Popular de Catalunya and Partit dels Socialistes de Catalunya apparently both strongly support bullfighting. Well, well. And if you need to know even more about Catalunya then the names of the bells in the Catalan cathedrals are listed at page 17. Those in Barcelona are called L'Oleguera antiga, Esqualla xica, Esquella de Prima, La Tomasa, L'Oleguera, La Severa, L'Angelica, La Paciana, La Narcisa, La Gregòria, La Dolors, L'Antònia, La Mercé, Honorata, Eulàlia, Alfonsa, Maria de les Mercés, Campana petita, Campana gran, La vedada, Esqualla xica ...and of course l'Esquella gran. Oh, what would the world be without l'Esquella Gran?

Well, maybe slightly less noisy!


Edited by Iversen on 15 June 2011 at 2:07am

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tractor
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 3637 days ago

1349 posts - 2292 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 2456 of 3959
08 June 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Una grande diferència és que l'article determinat es alguna cosa amb 's', no 'l' (encara que he
sentit molts 'l' quan vaig escoltar a la gent en els carrers i en autobuses i trens). L'edifici dels trenes i autobuses a
Palma és anomenat "Ses Estacions" (= els estacions en català català). Em record la llengua Cerdenyà que vaig
estudiar breument en la setmana passada i ón el article definit havia formes similares amb s- ... però no sé si hi ha
més que una pura coincidència darrera d'això.

És el mateix fenomen. L'article amb "s" és derivat del llatí ipse, en lloc de ille. Aquest fenomen també
existeix en alguns dialectes de la Costa Brava a Catalunya. Hi ha més informació en aquest article de la Viquipèdia:
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Català_salat


1 person has voted this message useful



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