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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1665 of 3959
02 February 2010 at 5:51pm | IP Logged 
When I started this log a normal log was a place where you kept a list of pages you had read, minutes you had listened to your target language and number of words you had committed to Anki or Supermemo. I found that concept totally irrelevant, but wanted a place where I could train my languages by telling in more general terms about my language related activities, and of course this meant that it had to be a multilingual log .. or no log. And here it is. However I have started a pure hyperliteral-translations log at languagelearners, so these translations will be rare here. Apart from that the concept has proved its worth, and I intend to continue the log.

GER: Ich habe gerade gesehen das zwanzig millionen deutsche Kreditkarten defekt sind, - sie können nich "2010" verstehen. Glücklicherweise kann man sie in den Banken 'reparieren' statt neue Karten zu produzieren. Aber sonst hat mich eher das Wetter interessiert, und Tief Miriam hat anscheinend Deutschland mit Schnee voll gepackt. Auch hier in Dänemark hat es heute geschneit, aber wo ich lebe konnten die Busse und Züge trotzdem fahren. Auf der Insel Bornholm hat es deutlich mehr geschneit, so dass die Gemeinde dort einfach ins Stocken ging.

SP: Hace un rato hablé por el teléfono con mi hermana. Hemos hablado sobre un viaje a Gran Canaria para ella y mi mamá. ¡Están rendidas de tanto tiempo de invierno! Pero en el momento que estabamos hablando ella ha visto a la televisión las inundaciónes imensas en las Islas Canarias (Tenerife). Adios viaje - mi hermana ha deciso en el acto de no dejar de su pais, cualquier sea el tiempo

LAT: Hodie apud bibliotecam fui, et "Satyricon" Gaii Petronii in linguis italicae ac latinae in hypogeo inveni. Liber iste importantissimus scientiae nostrae sermonis latini vulgaris est. Absurde est liber talis in archivium abdere.      

--------

I have watched the news in ZDF (German). Twenty million credit cards are defect - they can't understand the arcane expression "2010". They can however be used in Germany, and they can be 'repaired' in the banks. Apart from that the main theme has been the weater: Germany has got a lot of snow, and today we also have got a fair amount of snow. But where I live the busses and trains kept running, so it could have been worse.

I have just spoken to my sister on the phone. She and my mother were preparing to buy a trip to Gran Canaria. But right as we were discussing this theme she saw some frightening inundation clips from Tenerife, and she decided on the spot not the leave Denmark. No Canarian voyage for my family member - but I do intend to go to Trinidad as planned.

And finally: I visited the library today and and while rummaging throught the archives in the cellar I found a bilingual Latin-Italian edition of Satyricon by Gaius Petronius. This work is one of our few surviving sources of Popular Latin, and it is absurd to hide it away in the cellar - even though there may be a Danish translation upstairs in the main halls.


Edited by Iversen on 02 February 2010 at 7:31pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1666 of 3959
02 February 2010 at 9:20pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:

And finally: I visited the library today and and while rummaging throught the archives in the cellar I found a bilingual Latin-Italian edition of Satyricon by Gaius Petronius. This work is one of our few surviving sources of Popular Latin, and it is absurd to hide it away in the cellar - even though there may be a Danish translation upstairs in the main halls.


IT: Nel mese passato ho comprato nella libreria a Venlo un dizionario olandese-latino. Finora ho soltanto avuto un dizionario latino-olandese e mi ha mancato l'altra direzione.

NL: In het voorwoord van dit Latijnse woordenboek staat: "In principe worden er alleen wooorden opgenomen uit de klassieke periode. Er is echter een uitzondering gemaakt voor een beperkt aantal woorden uit het kerkelijk Latijn." Dus zodoende zit er helaas het hedendaagse Latijn niet bij.

IT: Nell'Olanda non e molto populare apprendere il latino nel liceo (come per esempio nella Germania) per questo devo essere felice se trovo un dizionario del latino per olandesi.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 02 February 2010 at 9:23pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1667 of 3959
03 February 2010 at 1:26am | IP Logged 
Optimum meum glossarium est "The New College Latin and English Dictionary" (Bantam Books) quia electio vocabulorum pare facta sit ad usu illibus qui sermone latine scribere ac cogitatere desiderint. Etiam dua glossaria Danica-Latina habeo, sed saepe aliquid dicere desidero quod cum glossario istis facte non exprimere possum. Non modo nomina instrumentorum technicorum absunt, sed etiam locutiones ex vitae nostri modernae.

In "New College" etiam pars Latin-English continetur, sed in directione Latina -> aliquid etiam "Langenscheidt Großes Schulwörterbuch Lateinistch-Deutsch" habeo quod 8000 lemmata expressionesque contineat et singillatim optime vocabula describet.

Praterea etiam "Neuem Latein Lexicon - Lexicon recentis latinitatis" habeo. Et non liber malus est, sed saepe circumlocutionem dat ubi vocabulum simplex melius sit. Exemplum gratia: Teut. "Pleite" quam "subitum patrimonii naufragium" vertitur.

----

My best Something -> Latin dictionary is a cheap little thing from Bantam: "The New College Latin and English dictionary". My old Danish -> Dictionary is bigger, but when I search for a word or expression I often can find it, - presumably it was written only for students who had to do the drills in some textbook, not for people who want to express themselves in Latin. In contrast I rarely go empty-handed away from the New College thing.

It also has a Latin --> English section, but for this direction I prefer my yellow Latin--> German school dictionary from Langenscheidt.

And finally I have got a specialized German -> NEW Latin dictionary with 15000 terms. But I'm sceptical about the long circumlocutions proposed by this book - the authors are apparently more scared about proposing new words than by constructing cumbersome translations with several words. I have the opposite attitude: if Latin doesn't contain a simple word for something, then I just find one. In all living languages the native speakers suggest new words and expressions all the time. Some of these die, others are accepted into the language. And for me Latin is a living language.


Edited by Iversen on 03 February 2010 at 1:42pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1668 of 3959
04 February 2010 at 2:05pm | IP Logged 
POR: Eu fiz uma pesquisa sobre o nome Guimarães (uma cidade portuguesa) e encontrou acidentalmente uma biografia do escritor brasileiro Guimarães Rosa, na qual eu ví a citação abaixo:

Falo: português, alemão, francês, inglês, espanhol, Italiano, esperanto, um pouco de russo; leio: sueco, holandês, latim e grego (mas com o dicionário agarrado); entendo alguns dialetos alemães; estudei a gramática: do húngaro, do árabe, do sânscrito, do lituânio, do polonês, do tupi, do hebraico, do japonês, do tcheco, do finlandês, do dinamarquês; bisbilhotei um pouco a respeito de outras. Mas tudo mal. E acho que estudar o espírito e o mecanismo de outras línguas ajuda muito à compreensão mais profunda do idioma nacional. Principalmente, porém, estudando-se por divertimento, gosto e distração.

O sr Rosa é brutalmente honesto em sua avaliação de suas habilidades dos seus linguagens! E eu posso reconhecer as sua razões - eu também estudo as lenguas "por divertimento, gosto e distração".

O Castelo (velho) de Guimarães é o lugar onde nasceu o primeiro rei de Portugal, D. Afonso Henriques. Segundo o sitio "Braga - Guia de Cidade"[/URL]

"A primeira estrutura militar construída em Vimaranes, (Guimarães) data provavelmente do século X, mandada edificar por Mumadona Dias, herdara do seu marido o governo das terras de Portucale" (vê-se de onde vêm o nome do pais!). Eu visitei a cidade e o castelo no ano 2007. Os muros exteriores ficam extremamente bem preservados, enquanto que no interior os edifícios caíram em ruínas. No entanto, é um lugar muito sugestiva, e encontra-se em um belo parque acima da Cidade Velha.

Existe também um moderno palácio na cidade, o "Paço dos Duques de Bragança", que foi costruido nos anos 1420 -1422. Mais tarde foi a família de Bragança, que restabeleceu a monarquia em Portugal depois do interlúdio espanhol, - mas então o palácio já não estava em uso.

-------------

I did a search for Guimarães and found the biography of a Brazilian author, Guimarães Rosas, a polyglot with a refreshingly sober account of his skills:

I speak: Portuguese, German, French, English, Spanish, Italian, Esperanto, a bit of Russian. I read: Swedish, Dutch, latin and Greek (clutching my dictionary). I understand some German dialects. I studied the grammar of Hungarian, Arabic, Sanskrit, Lithuanian, Polish, Tupi, Hebraic, Japanese, Czech, Finnish, Danish. I pryed into a few others. But all badly. And i find that studying the spirit and mechanism of other languages helps a lot towards understanding your national language more prfoundly. But first and foremost they (should be) studied for amusement, pleasure and distraction.

The Portuguese town Guimarães has an old castle built in the 10. century by Mumadona Dias, the widow and heiress of the ruler of a place called Portucale. Shortly after the first king of Portugal, Afonso Henriques, was born here. Downtown a palace from 1420-2 was built by the duke of Bragança, and his familie was the one that reestablished Portugal as an independent kingdom after a 60 year long period under Spanish rule. But by then the palace at Guimarães had already been abandoned.



Edited by Iversen on 04 February 2010 at 11:42pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1669 of 3959
04 February 2010 at 2:36pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
POR: Eu fiz uma pesquisa sobre o nome Guimarães (uma cidade portuguesa) e encontrou acidentalmente uma biografia do escritor brasileiro Guimarães Rosa, na qual eu ví a citação abaixo:

Falo: português, alemão, francês, inglês, espanhol, Italiano, esperanto, um pouco de russo; leio: sueco, holandês, latim e grego (mas com o dicionário agarrado); entendo alguns dialetos alemães; estudei a gramática: do húngaro, do árabe, do sânscrito, do lituânio, do polonês, do tupi, do hebraico, do japonês, do tcheco, do finlandês, do dinamarquês; bisbilhotei um pouco a respeito de outras. Mas tudo mal. E acho que estudar o espírito e o mecanismo de outras línguas ajuda muito à compreensão mais profunda do idioma nacional. Principalmente, porém, estudando-se por divertimento, gosto e distração.


SPA: Esta cita del poliglota portugues me gusta mucho. Es muy interesante de saber cuales idiomas este escritor habló y leyó. Y todo el estudio de idiomas para el placer y el divertimiento. !Tiene razón, este señor poligloto!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 04 February 2010 at 2:38pm

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Hobbema
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 Message 1670 of 3959
04 February 2010 at 5:02pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
POR: Eu fiz uma pesquisa sobre o nome Guimarães (uma cidade portuguesa) e encontrou acidentalmente uma biografia do escritor brasileiro Guimarães Rosa, na qual eu ví a citação abaixo:

Falo: português, alemão, francês, inglês, espanhol, Italiano, esperanto, um pouco de russo; leio: sueco, holandês, latim e grego (mas com o dicionário agarrado); entendo alguns dialetos alemães; estudei a gramática: do húngaro, do árabe, do sânscrito, do lituânio, do polonês, do tupi, do hebraico, do japonês, do tcheco, do finlandês, do dinamarquês; bisbilhotei um pouco a respeito de outras. Mas tudo mal. E acho que estudar o espírito e o mecanismo de outras línguas ajuda muito à compreensão mais profunda do idioma nacional. Principalmente, porém, estudando-se por divertimento, gosto e distração.


Esta é uma citação interessante, e confirma ainda outras discussões de antes que a linguagem está relacionada à cultura, à música, ao caráter nacional. Então, é melhor que ler e falar na línguagem do país que você estudar, para entender melhor.

"Por divertimento, gosto e distração"? Eu não posso pensar de um razão melhor para estudar!

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Iversen
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 Message 1671 of 3959
05 February 2010 at 12:28am | IP Logged 
IC: Í dag hef ég lesið einkum í íslensku Wikipedia á gömlum vinum okkar Hrói Höttur. Hrói hve?? Já, svo er kallað Robin Hood á íslensku. Og Sherwood Forest veitir Skírisskógurinn. Ég hef einnig prentuð ýmis önnur efni frá Wikipedia út, eins og öfgafullur-stutta æviágrip yfir Snorra Sturluson og Egill Skalla-Grímsson. Ég hef í hálft ár hefið geisladisk með Egill Skallagrimssons sögu sem ég hef ekki enn heyrt.

I have also redone my tables with the morphology of the Irish substantives. Thesem tables had become very complicated, but now I have separated the changes at the beginning of substantives from the changes at the end. Those at the beginning are caused by the definite article or other particles, and it struck me that they operated rather independent from the endings of the five declensions. The key to surviving Irish nominl morphology is to notice treat the initial changes as part and parcel of the preceding word, - i.e. the vocative particle "a" is not just the "a" but also the lenition it causes - which I write as "a + L". The system thus becomes much more handy (for simplicity I omit the Vocative and Dative and just quote the Nominative/Accusative and the genitive in singular and plural)). 'L' stands for lenition (aspiration, shown qwith a 'h') and 'E' for eclipse, which for instance transforms c (/k/) into g, written gc. Finally 't' and 'h' are just those letters, sometimes with a hyphen:

Article + noun:

Masculine:
consonant: an . . . an + L .. / . na .. . na + E
vowel . .: .. an +t . .an . . . ./ . na +h . .na + n
's' . . .: . . . an . . . .an + t . ./ . na . . . na

Feminine:
consonant: an + L . .na . . . ./ . na . . . na + E
vowel . .: .. an . . . .na +h . . / . na +h . .na +n
's' . . .: . . . an +t . . na . . . ./ . na ... . na

(type of first letter of the root of the substantiv to the left)

Notice the beautiful symmetries!

The endings are also easier to systematize when they are seen in isolation. And sometimes again a process rather than a specific letter functions as marker. For instance in the 1. declension, which mainly consists of masculine nouns ending in a consonant preceded by a 'broad' vowel (a, o, u), the genitive marker is that the last syllable is made slender by inserting an i. In plural all cases can either be equal (a strong noun) or different (weak one). In the 1. declension this means that the nominative/accusative plural has the same 'slenderizing' ending as the genitive singular, while the genitive plural is similar to the nominative/accusative singular. Strong nouns have generally some specific suffixes at the end - and there are apparently no rules for which strong noun gets which suffix.

PS: I still find that Irish grammar is great fun.



Edited by Iversen on 05 February 2010 at 12:32am

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Iversen
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 Message 1672 of 3959
08 February 2010 at 3:14am | IP Logged 
I have been spending the weekend at a family visit and it is quite late now, so I'll just mention briefly what I have done.

I have studied some bilingual printouts about Peter I (the Great) of Russia

I have read most of the Kauderwälsch Book about Irish (including the section about the word forms and expressions used instead of 'to be', 'to have' and the modal verbs

I have read the beginning of Satyricon in Latin (with less help than expected from the Italian translation, which is very free in places)

I have watched a lot of German television, including programs from the zoos of Bremerhaven, Berlin, Stuttgart and Münster. These programs are in fact a fine source for listening to different varieties of German.

.. and I have spent a couple of hours surfing in different languages, even though I ought to have written a proper contribution to this thread instead.


Edited by Iversen on 08 February 2010 at 3:16am



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