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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5844 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 889 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 9:17am | IP Logged | ||
DE: Naturwissenschaften in Inas Kuhstall, echt witzig!!! Aber sie hat Recht, Methangas ist ein schlimmeres Treibhausgas als Kohlendioxid. Ich lache mich kaputt, wenn ich soetwas lese, diese interessanten naturwissenschafltichen Fakten verpackt in die Dorfsprache von Bäuerin Ina Müller. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 16 May 2009 at 12:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 890 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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GER: Ina Müller ist mit ihren eigenen Wörter (im Hoch übersetzt) "mit Scheisse auf den Füsse und Gülle auf den Händen aufgewachst", aber lebt jetzt in München mit einem nicht-Platt-sprechenden Freund, und sie ernährt sich so weit ich weiß als Kabaretist und vom Fernsehen, wo man sien Platt nie hört. Für mich ist sie nur als Authorin relevant.
Übrigens möchte ich auch gerne andere Dialekte lernen, aber es gibt ganz einfach nicht genügend Lehrmittel, - ohne die alten Sendungen des NDR hätte ich auch nicht Platt gelernt. Dänisches Fern ist nicht besser, - man hört sehr selten die guten alten Dialekten, und when die Leute immer nur die Standardsprache im Fern hören dann nehmen sie auch nicht ihren eigenen Dialekten ernst ... dann fehlt nur noch das sie sie auch als minderwertig ansehen. Ich bin da kein Optimist: die Dänen werden ihren Dialekten vergessen, und statt zweisprachig Dialekt-Standarddänisch werden sie eher zweisprachig Dänisch-English. ------------ In her own words Ina Müller grew up with dung on her feet and slurry on her hands, but now she lives in Munich and doesn't even speak Low German in her TV shows! For me she is only relevant as an Low German author, but her niche there suits me like a glove: short snippets which I can finish in the bus-back-home-from-work, very witty and not polluted with fictive persons, made-up plots and other errors from the literary world. And even when she touches upon serious matters, such as the environmental problem with methan pollution from cattle, she does it in a way that is both thought provoking and funny. Of course there are tons of authors in other languages (and even a few in Low German) that also can write in this essayistic style, but the difference is that there isn't much scientific literature in Low German, so the competition is more restricted. It is more trivial to find a splendid author in English or Spanish that in a language which in my world is represented only by fading memories and maybe ten thin books. Edited by Iversen on 16 May 2009 at 12:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5895 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 891 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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Meiner Meinung nach, haben die Dialekte im allgemeine wenig Chance: alle wurden als minderwertvoll gesehen. Darum, wahrscheinlich wollen die Muttersprachler ihren Dialekt immer so gerne als Sprache anerkannt haben, weil Status Sprache höher liegt.
Frage für euch: jetzt tue ich viel Mühe, um alles in Word zu schreiben, und deshalb natürlich die Sprache davon zu wechseln. Was ich wissen möchte, ist ob Word es richtig hatte: ich hatte „ Muttersprachler ihre Dialekt“ geschrieben, und er (Word) hat grün darunter gemacht, und wollte „ihren“ Stimmt’s? Danke ☺ Auch, „stimmt’s“ mag er überhaupt nicht und gibt die rote Linie, aber schlagt nichts vor. Das ist aber blöd: wenn er es nicht mag, ok gut, aber dann musst er wohl etwas anders vorschlagen, oder? Mit bestimmten Wörter tut er es doch. Word benutze ich seit Jahre: es ist mir schon bekannt, aber nicht für die Fremdsprachen. Dafür hatte ich Locale Switcher von firefox. Firefox ist aber manchmal zu langsam, dann schreibe ich durch Safari wo kein ähnliches Spellchecker zu finden ist. ich mag die rote Linien nicht, aber es wird immer einige geben. Pech also, ich verstehe, dass ich mit meiner Schrift etwas unternehmen muss oder die anderen denken ich sei dumm und / oder faul. ich bin beide nicht denke ich. Ich muss für jemand die ich kenne, Infos über Skype finden: wie kann man Skype beim Sprachenlernen benutzen? Danke im Voraus. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5844 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 892 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||
DE: Ja, "Muttersprachler ihren Dialekt" ist richtig: Wen? ihren, also Akkusativ. Ich habe zwei Funktionen von Skype selbst ausprobiert. Man braucht dafür ein Headset mit Mikrofon und dann kann man international kostenlos via Internet telefonieren wie mit einem Telefon. Die akustische Qualität finde ich bei Skype schlechter als bei einem analogen Telefon. Es klingt von der Akustik her etwas unnatürlich, finde ich. Des weiteren kann man beim Telefonieren live Chat machen. Das heißt mit einer Person gleichzeitig chatten und sprechen, natürlich in jeder gewünschten Sprache. Wenn man das macht, dann muss man sehr, sehr schnell tippen. Ich habe das mal mit meinem türkischen Tandempartner gemacht und habe von diesem Schnell-Chatten ganz tierische Rückenschmerzen bekommen. Insofern kann man - wie man möchte - sowohl / entweder chatten oder sprechen via Skype. Wahrscheinlich hat Skype noch mehr Funktionen, die dann aber kostenpflichtig sind, aber die habe ich nicht ausprobiert. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 16 May 2009 at 6:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5895 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 893 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Fasulye,
VIELEN Dank!!!!!!!!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5844 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 894 of 3959 16 May 2009 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | ||
Gerne gemacht, meine Erklärungen sind sicherlich für viele interessant, die Skype noch nicht kennen. Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| josht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6443 days ago 635 posts - 857 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch | Message 895 of 3959 17 May 2009 at 5:03am | IP Logged | ||
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Iversen:
I've another question regarding word lists. (Yes, I'll run out of them eventually!) This time it's more to do with logistics, if you will, rather than the actual learning method. Specifically: how in the world do you deal with all of the paper? Since I've taken to word lists like a fish to water, I've struggled to keep track of all of the pages. I've got word lists in all of my languages floating around the house, on my desks and in folders. I've tried to just put them in folders, but I've found that to be a real pain when I'm wanting to actually find something. Do you keep all of your word lists? Revision lists? Also, I've recently switched over to the "A" layout for my word lists (from the learnanylanguage wiki), so my initial review is on the same sheet as the original word list, but still, with 4-5 languages on my plate, I fear I may be shoved out of my home by a mass of papers. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 896 of 3959 17 May 2009 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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To Josht: Why should you want to find something specific in your old word lists? You may want to look through some of them to check that you still remember the words, but this is more like the exercise of refreshing known words which I have described in other posts. In general it is better to refresh your wordlists within a day or two while your memory of writing the words still is fresh. After that you may just as well start a new word list. But refreshing or even overlearning known words is also a valid technique.
Personally I have for nostalgic reasons kept most of my word lists. I have some folded paper sheets that are large enough to keep a stack of paper, and I keep one of those for each of my languages, - plus some for hyperliteral translations and things like that. I use the same kind of sheets for keeping bilingual printouts, articles, green sheets and things like that, and it can still fit on just one shelf. ---------- Apart from that I have spent yesterday afternoon and evening at a meeting in my travel club, where the host told about a travel from Hong Kong through China into Myan-Mar, frankly I didn't think that you could enter that country by land. We saw the pretty round letters that the locals use, but of course it wasn't primarily a lecture on the Burmese language. Today I started out studying Tagalog grammar for an hour or so, - I wrote a green sheet with all the conjugations i have seen in my sources, but after that I proceeded to look at the list of concrete verbs, and already from the first five first verbs I had to conclude that there are combinations of the different prefixes that aren't covered by the grammatical section. But that doesn't come as a surprise, - I already knew about the prefixes ika-/ka- from the grammatical tables in one of my dictionaries. I use 3-4 colours to dissect the verbal forms. Take for instance the subject-focus conjugation of 'takbo' (to run). It has a root, an infinitive form, a 'completed', and 'incompleted' and a 'completated' (aspects rather than tenses): takbo -- tumakbo -- tumakbo -- tumatakbo -- tatakbo I call the 'ta' a reduplication element because it is repeated twice in several forms. However this repetition is partly obfuscated by the insertion of an infix -um- which splits the first instance of the reduplication. I write the reduoplication element in red, the main affix in green, and the remainder of the root is written in blue. There is another group of forms with 'object focus' where the most common affix is -in, but to describe the forms of some verbs I need a fourth colour for an extra prefix, which can be for instance i, ipan(g) or (i)ka. And the funny thing is that the reduplication element here splits this extra prefix. Ipang-verbs have 'beneficiary focus'. Take for instance 'hampas' (to hit), which have the forms hampas -- ipanghampas -- ipinanghampas -- ipinanghahampas -- ipanghahampas Let's analyze the fourth form (the 'incomplete' or 'progressive'). The reduplication element is of course "ha", "-mpas" is the remainder of the root, "in" is an affix that is used in slightly different patterns in many non-active forms, and it splits the last ingredient, the prefix "ipang". I suppose the way to go in order not to end up raving mad is to learn to recognize the affixes and to distinguish the reduplication element even where it isn't present or not reduplicated. Luckily there isn't gender, number or person involved in the conjugation, and the old imperative has disappeared from spoken Tagalog within the last few hundred years. The fascinating thing about the Tagalog verbs is that it is one big combinatory exercise, which almost makes it difficult to remember that real living people are speaking this language. ---- CAT: En aquest moment estic escoltant una cinta amb quatre hores de programes en català. Una vegada vaig tenir un paquete "espanyol" d'idiomes a través del meu proveïdor de cable, el qual contenia un program català. Però la demanda era massa petita, per la qual cosa es va fer un paquete de les llengues romàniques amb dos programes francesos, un italià i un programa d'espanyol. Vaig fer al ùltim moment una cinta VHS amb solament programes catalans, encara que jo aleshores no havia volgut aprendre de nou l'idioma, i ara aprofito d'això. Jo hi viatjaré en mig de la setmana, per el que queria estar a la costum d'escoltar aquest idioma i de poder parlar-lo correctament. Right now I'm listening to a VHS tape with 4 hours of Catalan. I once had a 'Spanish language package' from my cable provider, but there weren't enough costumers, and then they scrapped the French, Italian and Spanish packages and made one 'Romance' package instead. Goodbye Catalan. But even though I didn't contemplate relearning this language back then I made this tape, and now I profit from this rare glimpse of foresight. After all I do want to be able to understand the language down there (and pronounce it in a somewhat congenial way) when I get down there later this week. Edited by Iversen on 18 May 2009 at 5:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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