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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Hobbema Senior Member United States Joined 5741 days ago 541 posts - 575 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, French, Dutch | Message 1513 of 3959 23 November 2009 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | ||
First of all, congratulations on 200,000 views on your log! I have listened to Sarasate’s Zapateado and Zigeunerweisen. You had originally made several interesting comments regarding the relationship between music and speech rhythms, or language. After listening to these pieces, I can’t comment on that link specifically, although I found those pieces enjoyable and interesting. ________________ Agora, eu estou estudando a cultura e música de Brasil. Eu acho que esta é um pergunta muita complicada. Há a influência, é claro, de Português e Europeu colonização, mas se você estuda isso influência você tambem tem que olhar para o contribuição de indígena e africano culturas. Nós estudamos a influéncia da religião sobre a cultura, e nós estudamos a influéncia da cultura sobre a música. Nós estudamos da influência das culturas sobre as outras culturas. Eu gostaría explorar a relação entre a linguagem e a música e a cultura. Mas eu não sei onde começar. Uma pergunta interesante, não é? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5924 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 1514 of 3959 23 November 2009 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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AF: Veels geluk, Iversen! Ek dink jou "log" is uitstekend. Ek vind jou "log" nie te verwarrend of te ongeorganiseerd nie, want die verskillend besprekings is altyd intrigant en inligtend. Ja, ek begryp soms boodskappe of tale beter as anders maar ek het gee nie om nie. Edited by mick33 on 24 November 2009 at 11:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1515 of 3959 23 November 2009 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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POR: Falando sobre música brasileira se tem geralmente samba e bossa nova em mente, mas o Brasil tem produzido pelo menos um só compositor de classe mundial, seja Heitor Villa-Lobos. Infelizmente, geralmente é também o único do qual se ouve falar. Quando visitei Rio de Janeiro, visitei tembém um arquivo de áudio, onde se havia grande quantidade de casetes de música. Perguntei-lhes uma pergunta: você tem alguma coisa sobre música clássica brasileira FORA de Villa-Lobos? Mas não, mesmo aqui não podiam jogar musica de um segundo compositor clássico nativo deste vasto país.
As I mentioned in another thread I have just visited our local library, and one of the books I borrowed was one written by Oliver Sacks. I was reminded about this extremely interesting psychiatrist when I accidentally stumbled over his the Musicophilia lecture, but in fact I have read his book "The man who mistook his wife for a hat" long ago, and I even painted a picture based on the elements in it: 
DA: Jeg var som nævnt på biblioteket i dag, I was as mentioned on libraryThe in day og nede i kælderen stødte jeg på noget så uventet som Richard Wagners and down in cellarThe hit I on something as unexpected as Richard Wagner's "Über das dirigieren" i en udgave fra 1914 (Breitkopf, Leipzig) "Over the conducting" in an edition from 1914 (Breitkopf, Leipzig) - på tysk og trykt med gotiske bogstaver (også kaldet fraktur - on German and printed with Gothic letters (also called 'fraktur' hvilket får mig til at associere til brækkede ben). which gets me to associate to broken legs). Og den har jeg naturligvis et par kommentarer til. And that have I naturally a couple (of) commentaries to. GER: 
Man kann vieles von Wagner sagen, aber trotz seines Berufes war er alles anderes als taktvoll (<--- Witz). Darum is dieses Buch trotz seines Alters ganz unterhaltsam. Und obwohl ich mein Lesetempo wegen des etwas altertümlichen Deutschen nicht auf meinem üblichen Niveau halten kann, hoffe ich dieses opus als mein nächstes Bus-zurück-vom-Arbeit-Buch beseitigen zu können. Er schreibt zum Beispiel dieses über die damaligen Bratschisten: "Dieses letzteren Instrument wird überall zum allgrößten Teile von invalid gewordenen Geigern, aber auch von geschwächten Bläsern, sobald diese irgend eimal auch etwas Geige gespielt haben, besetzt". Un dies über die spieler an der ersten Pulten: "Nach wie vor rücken in den großen Orchestern die Musiker nach dem Anziennitätsgesetze zu den Stellen der ersten Instrumente herauf, und nehmen folgerichtig erst bei eingetretener Schwächung ihrer Kräfte die ersten Stimmen ein, während die jüngeren Kräfte und tüchtigeren Musiker an den zweiten sitzen,..." Ich hätte vom Verfasser des berüchtigten Buches über die Judentum im Musik (!) und Lieblingskomponist von Hitler etwas ganz schlimmes über Leute wie Mendelssohn-Bartholdy und Meyerbeer erwartet, aber er ist hier unerwartet anständig. Er schreibt z.B. "bei dem doch wahrlich nicht an ungewöhnlichsten Kenntnissen und Begabungen fehlte" über Mendelssohn, und über Meyerbeer daß er "recht gut verstand, vorauf es auf einen glücklichen Vortrag ankommst". Aber er sieht beide als zu weich und delikat an: "Warum verließ sie ihre Kraft? Es scheint: weil sie eben keine Kraft hatten". In der Tat is dies fast freundlich verglichen mit seiner Bemerkungen über italienische Oper. ---------- Hobbemae will be studying Brasilian Musik, - I suppose this mostly will be popular genres as bossa-nova and samba, but Brazil has got one single worldclass 'classical' composer: Heitor Villa-Lobos. But it is difficult to find anything by or about any of his lesser collegues, - when I visited Rio de Janeiro some years ago I also visited the Audio Archive, where they literally had tons of music tapes. But when I asked for classical Brasilian music written by anybody but Villa-Lobos they came out empty-handed (though I do have 2 minutes music of Mozart Camargo Guarneri in my own collection). Good luck to Fasulye with her upcoming job search. However my German theme today will probably not amuse her: I found an old book by the nasty, but splendid German composer Richard Wagner. The book was written in 1869, but even though this edition was published in 1914 it still is printed with Gothic letters. And Wagner is not exactly tactful: he writes that the violists in German orchestras generally were handicapped violinists or wind players who had become too weak to play their instruments. He writes that the string players at the front desks have advanced through the ranks simply by getting older, and now that they finally had arrived to the front desks they are too old and weakened to play well - the musicians that are worth their salt are sitting at the desks behind them. I had expected some scathing remarks about people like Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer (after all Wagner wrote a book about "Jewishness in Music" and he was the darling of the nazi leaders), but at least in this book he acknowledges their knowledge and giftedness, - but he clearly also thought that they were wimps who wrote quiet and delicate music. This is however almost friendly compared to his comments about Italian opera composers. Wagner was definitely not an amiable character, but a book like this is almost a historical monument. And I can get some valuable training in reading Gothic (or blackletter) fonts. Edited by Iversen on 24 November 2009 at 12:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5847 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1516 of 3959 24 November 2009 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||
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DE: Ich habe mir mit Interesse deine hyperliteral translation Dänsich-Englisch durchgelesen, vor allem um die kleinen dänischen Wörter zu trainieren, denn in 3-4 Monaten will ich meinen ersten Astronomieartikel auf Dänisch lesen, die Links hierzu kann ich hier in Iversens Log finden.
IPA (= International Phonetic Alphabet) Ich war gerade intensiv auf You Tube beschäftigt, denn Glossika hat neue Videos hochgeladen. Ich will bei ihm meine Linguistik-Kenntisse auffrischen bzw. neu lernen.Zum Beispiel habe ich im Studium das IPA nicht gelernt und jetzt unterreichtet Glossika in seinen Videos das IPA. Für Türkisch brauche ich das IPA nicht, denn die Aussprache ist völlig regelmäßig. Die Aussprache des Englischen ist schon sehr komplex und die Dänische noch viel mehr. In meiner Pons Dänisch "Grammatik kurz und bündig" stehen ausführiche Beispiele zur dänischen Phonetik alles mit IPA Transkription. Ich möchte anhand dieser Sprache gerne lernen, die IPA-Symbole richtig zu lesen. Natürlich verwendet jede Sprache andere IPA-Symbole, das ist klar. Glossika bringt viele Beispiele aus Sprachen wie Chinesisch, Arabisch, Russich usw. Dänisch und Türkisch hat er nicht gelernt. Eigentlich wirft es ein schlechtes Licht auf meine Universität, dass sie uns Studenten die IPA nicht beigebracht hatte, das Thema wurde in der Linguistik-Einführungsvorlesung nur mal kurz angerissen. Der Professor schrieb in einer Stunde ein paar Beispiele an die Tafel und damit hatte sich das Thema schon erschöpft. Dadurch habe ich jetzt diese Bildungslücke. Mal sehen, wie weit es mir gelingen wird, diese Lücke mit Hilfe von Glossikas Phonetik-Videos und der Lektüre meiner Grammatik Dänisch aufzufüllen... Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 24 November 2009 at 9:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1518 of 3959 25 November 2009 at 1:52am | IP Logged | ||
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Ich habe heute das IPA Alphabet auf Wikipedia ein Bissel genauer studiert, aber ich habe konkludiert daß es wenig Sinn hat es zu lernen, weil es fast unmöglich ist diese Zeichen auf einer Internetseite zu übertragen - und es wird auch sehr langwierig von Hand zu schreiben, weil das System so kompliziert ist - viel schlimmer als Altgriechisch, mit weit über hundert Grundzeichen und viele diakritische Zeichen.
Anstatt dessen versuche ich die Laute jeder Sprache zu schreiben mit gewöhnliche Buchstaben, wenn nötig mit zusätzliche Zeichen von andere Alphabeten. Dies ist gewiß nicht gut genug für Lehrbücher (obschon dort üblich), aber genügt für mich als Privatmennsch. Edited by Iversen on 25 November 2009 at 10:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1519 of 3959 25 November 2009 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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LAT: Ephemeridem primam paginam occupavisse !
Heri vesperi iterum Ephemeridem lexi. Hic commentariolum vidi quod de "recente 'pugna' inter "Ephemeridem" et regimen Italiae" narrat. Ego minime antes de ista pugna animadverti, sed nunc scio nuntia Italiana berlusconista "Il Giornale" commentarium Ephemeridis commentatus esse de pugna Silvii Berlusconis contra judicia Italiana. Minister primarius Berlusconi legem 'Alfano' introduxit ut "quattuor summi magistratus ante judices per totum mandatum deferri non possint". Sed summum tribunal italicum legem rescidi, et nunc Silvius Berluscioni in ius vocatus est corruptelae, fraudis et adulterationis accusatus. Is tamen iudices et praesidentem Italianorum accusat, dicens quod sinistrae parti faveant - ut explicabat Ephemeris. "Il Giornale" facta causae non potens contradicere non pilam, sed lusorem aggredit: "..la versione è scritta in un latinoitalianizzato, quasimaccheronico, con una sintassi schiacciata su quella della nostra lingua, che nulla ha a che vedere con i costrutti di Ovidio o i periodi di Sallustio. Un latino faidate, ad uso e consumo della militanza politica.". Commentarium Ephemeridis: "Valde gaudemus, quod numerus visitationum Ephemeridis celerrime increverit et quod blanda verba de nobis hic referantur". ----- Yesterday evening I once again read my favorite Latin newspaper Ephemeris, and here I noticed a notice about a controverse it had with an Italian newspaper. The background is that the Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi had got the Italian parliament to pass the law 'Alfano' that exempted the four highest servants of the country from any legal proceedings during their term in office. The Italian court system has now rejected this law as anticonstitutional, and Berlusconi has been called to appear before a court on charges of corruption, fraud and falsification. His answer has been that the juridical system and the president of the country are targeting him because they prefer the leftist parties. Ephemeris had written about this in a short notice, and apparently one of Berlusconi's fanatical supporters saw this and got very upset. His reaction got as far as to the front page of the newspaper "Il Giornale". I'm not going to discuss Berlusconi's deeds or his reactions to the accusations, but the angry journalist spends one half page at page 11 in the journal without being able to point to a factual error in the short notice in Latin. Instead he goes for the language: the Latin of Ephemeris is 'maccharonic', Italianated and all in all a far cry from the hallowed words of classics like Ovidius and Sallust. Later in the long article there is a desperate plea from this furious traditionalist not to let the "professorucoli sessantottardi" wreak havoc on the way Latin is and always has been taught in Italian schools. The answer from the Neolatinists behind Ephemeris? They are roaring with laughter, and the number of people who read their articles has soared. I expect that they will follow the further proceedings in the case Berlusconi closely, and I'm sure that they will keep on doing their utmost to secure a place in the future for Latin. Edited by Iversen on 27 November 2009 at 12:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5866 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 1520 of 3959 28 November 2009 at 2:51am | IP Logged | ||
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De klimaatconferentie in Kopenhagen is groot nieuws in Deense kranten. Het zou interessant zijn om deze conferentie in verschillende van de talen van Iversen bespreken. Ik zal proberen een paar opmerkingen in het Nederlands te bieden.
Er is een nieuwsbericht over een gokbedrijf. Met dit bedrijf kan je op de acties van de politie tijdens de conferentie wedden. De vraag is: zal de politie gebruik van waterkanonnen tegen de demonstranten maken? Een ander nieuwsbericht gaat over hoe crematoria zou meer vriendelijk voor het milieu kunnen worden. Een voorstel wordt aanbevolen dat een groot crematorium op een centrale locatie gebouwd worden. Te besparen op de CO2-uitstoot, zouden lijken vier tegelijk in grote lijkwagens worden vervoerd. En het crematorium zou een systeem voor terugwinning van kwik uit de lijken hebben, en dus zou kwik uit het milieu houden. Om verdere verlaging van de CO2 zal de Deense regering van gratis fietsen beschikbaar maken voor deelnemers aan de conferentie en de pers. Zowel de normale fietsen en elektrische fietsen beschikbaar zal zijn. Echter, zij verwachten dat niet veel van de staatshoofden zal met de fiets reizen. Hoewel niet direct gerelateerd aan de klimaatconferentie, de Minister van Onderwijs heeft een voorstel voor taaldocenten. De minister wil dat deze leerkrachten worden verplicht om minimaal een half jaar hebben buiten Denemarken in een land dat spreekt de taal die ze onderwijzen. Deze ervaring zou goed voor het leren van talen zijn. Het zou ook de leraar in staat stellen om meer te leren over de cultuur en gewoonten van het land. Het is duidelijk dat de voordelen van dit voorstel zal niet helpen met de vertaling dat nodig is voor de klimaatconferentie. Deze vertaling zal waarschijnlijk een enorme hoeveelheid werk vereisen. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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