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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6468 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 1825 of 3959 15 May 2010 at 9:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Comme tu aimes visiter l'Europe, pourquoi pas aller au
"Karneval der Kulturen" ? C'est un des plus grands festivals de Berlin et j'aime l'atmosphère multiethnique quand on se promène à travers le grand marché, avec du tam-tam africain, les odeurs du manger exotique, les costumes haut(s?) en couleurs des berlinois étrangers venus présenter leur culture, l'artisanat... C'est du 21 mais au 24, la fin de semaine de Pentecôte. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1826 of 3959 16 May 2010 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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FR: Et maintenant je suis encore une fois à la maison, après deux mini-voyages pendant un seul mois. Et malheureusement je crois que cela sera tout pour ce mois, puisqu'il faut maintenant que je m'occupe un peu de ma famille et mes études. J'aimerais bien (re)visiter Berlin et le "Karneval der Kulturen", mais c'est trop tôt après mes autres escapades.
D'ailleurs j'ai eu quelques jours très actifs en France, et j'ai remporté un sac de magazines scientifiques et historiques - 11 titres! De quoi lire les prochains jours. ----- I'm now back at home again after the second mini-travel in one month. But that will probably be all, because now I have to visit my family and things like that. I cwould like to revisit Berlin and see the Culture Carnival, but it is too close after my other travels ... I have to save some free days for later. Apart from that: I had I fine trip to Southern France (Nice, Marseille and Aix-en-Provence). Blue skyes, a bit of wind (the famous 'mistral') and no volcanic ash to spoil my time planning. I have brought back 11 magazines about science and history, - probably more than I could find in any other non-Anglophone country, when the basic condition is that it should be writings in the local language(s). Edited by Iversen on 17 May 2010 at 10:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5845 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1827 of 3959 16 May 2010 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | ||
C'est assez pour lire pour les prochains mois, c'est bien! Tus lis le français facilement, moi je lis le français moins rapidement que le néerlandais et l'anglais. Mais dans les revues scientifiques les articles ne sont pas trop longues pour moi, donc ça va bien. Ce n'est pas comme avec la revue "Sterne und Weltraum", où j'ai déjà lu des articles avec 8 pages. J'ai eu une excellente soirée de Skype polyglotte en 4 langues. Pour une personne communicative comme moi c'est vraiment idéal, mais c'est aussi la seule possibilité pour moi de parler espagnol et français que j'ai. Il ne fait pas de difference combien de langues les polyglottes parlent, mais la mainière d'utiliser les langues avec une certaine facilité et certaines experiences avec l'apprentissage des langues sont tous les mêmes. C'est très typique! C'est un peu comme regarder dans un mirroir, c'est une experience speciale pour moi. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 16 May 2010 at 10:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1828 of 3959 16 May 2010 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ja, ich habe etwas über deine Gespräche mit Torbyrne und Amir anderswo im Forum gelesen. Ich habe niemals versucht durch Skype zu kommunizieren, obwohl ich das Konzept genial finde. Aber mitunter treffe ich lebendige Menschen, und dann spreche ich natürlich 'meine' Sprachen, auch gerne gemischt. Ich bin aber grundsätzlich nicht bereit Videos einzuspielen, - wenn ich die Kommentaren auf Youtube lese dann bin ich froh daß ich dort nichts hinterlassen habe.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5845 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1829 of 3959 17 May 2010 at 12:21am | IP Logged | ||
Es ist nicht jedermanns Sache, sich vor eine Kamera zu setzen / zu stellen. Mir fällt das leicht und mir macht das Spaß, aber viele andere Leute sind Kamerascheu und würden in einem Video unnatürlich wirken. Deine Einstellung zu Skype/You Tube/Telefonen/Handys ist sehr konsequent und finde ich sie völlig in Ordung. Du kannst ja im Ausland deine Sprachen sprechen, ich kann dies nicht. Ich bekomme auf meine You Tube Videos keine negativen Feedbacks, vielleicht liegt das vor allem daran, dass ich gut mit Menschen umgehen kann und dementsprechend mit meinen You Tube Abonnenten kommuniziere. Es ist je nach Person sehr unterschiedlich, wie die Kommentare ausfallen. Man kann das steuern, als You-Tube-Mensch mit seinen Videos hat man die Fäden selbst in der Hand. Der große Unterschied ist, dass du einen sicheren Job hast, der dir das Reisen in die Länder deiner Zielsprachen ermöglicht. Ich werde nie in eine solche finanzielle Position kommen, daher muss ich andere Möglichkeiten nutzen, um meine Sprachen anzuwenden. Es wird keinen wundern, dass es, wenn ich gut im Callcenter mit Kunden kommunizieren kann (und zwar stundenlang!), mir dann auch sehr leicht fällt und Spaß macht mit Leuten, die ich vorher nicht kenne, per Skype zu kommunizieren. Ich kann das gut nachvollziehen, dass du solche Dinge wie You Tube und Skype nicht machst. Wenn ich skypen will, dann finde ich meine Leute. Es hat übrigens sehr, sehr lange gedauert, bis ich welche gefunden hatte. Ich hatte monatelang gesucht. Viele meinen nämlich, dass man für Skype gleichaltrig sein müsste. Das Alter ist völlig unwichtig, aber viele schätzen das falsch ein. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 17 May 2010 at 8:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1830 of 3959 20 May 2010 at 1:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I have been reading the Danish version of "Den fælles Europæiske Referenceramme for Sprog: Læring, undervisning og evaluering" - i.e. the book that is the foundation for the wellknown A1 to C2 scale. I have commented negatively on this project elsewhere, and my opinion has not changed after reading in detail about it here. Some of the critique points are that it describes the learning process as a movement where you always go from speaking about 'near' things with a limited number of prelearned phrases to participating in academical discussion about any theme with fluency and correctness. But as I have repeatedly pointed out scientific articles and news broadcasts can be better genres for the beginner than scenes from your personal life, because the sentence constructions in such sources are more regular and the proportion of 'international' words (English and Latin) is higher. Another critique point: the book does refer to possible 'unevenness' in skills in different areas, but ignores the simple fact that unevenness is a fundamental characteristic of language learning.
There are other problems that I could mention, and the list would probably have been much longer if the book had contained some concrete information apart from the scale (actually there are several scales, but they are all more or less reformulations of one and the same scale). There is nothing about concrete learning techniques (except that class teaching is taken as the fundamental paradigm) - instead the book epitomizes the kind of verbose, empty babbling that you could expect from an anonymous commitee in a political organization (the Council of Europe). 343 worthless and boring pages, sigh. After this frustrating book I proceeded to the Danish translation (from 1998) of a book about the publication of the Dead Sea scrolls. And it is much more captivating, but no less depressing, as its theme is the ignominous process through which a group of catholic clergymen/researchers somehow got the monopoly of access to these extremely important documents and misused it to delay the publication ad infinitum. I'm not going to discuss their motives in detail because that would lead to a religious debâcle, but the simple fact that they dragged out the publication process and denied others access even to photographic copies for more than 40 long years should have been reason enough to kick them out. But nothing happened. Actually I still still don't know whether all material has been publicized. There has not been much time for language studies today - I have been travwelling twice this month, and I have spent my evening preparing photos and travel reports from those trips. And I'm still not quite through the process - I'll be doing some sightseeing in Denmark with my familie here at Whitsun. Edited by Iversen on 20 May 2010 at 2:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Wise owl chick Senior Member Ecuador Joined 5316 days ago 122 posts - 137 votes Studies: English | Message 1831 of 3959 20 May 2010 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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You don't like the A1-C2 scale, but how would you prefer it?
Personnally I think that each language has a differnt "amount" in this stages. For example, German is very difficult in A1-A2, becuase of all the cases and the correct der, die, das, en, er etc. But later it's more logic. English is very simple in A1-A2, you can understand and say things quicker (more quickly?) as in German, but later, English has millions of multiword verb. In my opinion the A1-C2 scale is ok, although it is very approximate and hasn't the possibility for a different level in for example reading than speaking. The other point, is that it's a list of the things which you must do, but sometimes those things are very difficult and not possible in your own language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1832 of 3959 20 May 2010 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't mind that there is a sequence of steps from A1 to C2, and the scale may be just spot-on if you specifically want to specify the conversational level for a person who has learnt some target language through simple dialogues with fellow students. But even though the book has other scales than the one normally quoted the one that is quoted everywhere is the one that is focussed on conversational ability. The parallel scale for assessing reading ability is hopeless because it is based on the idea that informal language about daily life always is easier than texts about 'serious' subjects, such as quantum physics and law. And the book just keep turning the same arguments again and again with slight changes of perspective, instead of taking a step back and ask some simple, but impertinent questions about the foundations for the building.
Besides I'm happy that I didn't end up as a translator in the EU or European Council -- poor people who have to translate 343 pages of empty babble that could have been reduced to 5-10 pages of suggestions. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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