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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 833 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 1:30am | IP Logged 
POR: O projeto continua. Tenho contado o meu vocabulário Português. Tenho um velho dicionario monolingiual de tamanho médio de Porto Editora. Dispõe de 1052 páginas, mas não indica o número de entradas, e por isso tinha de fornecer uma estimativa, que diz é que o livro tem aproximadamente 50.000 palavras. Com isso, eu tinha 21.900 palavras, o que equivale a 43%, e isto é bem como eu havia adivinhado.   

Ao contrario o meu Langenscheidt indica somênte o número de 100.000 'palavras + expressões' nas duas linguas, o que equivale a não fornecer nenhum número. Eu estimo que tem 27.800 palavras Portuguesas, e que eu conhece 19.800 delas. Mas eu tenho um problema: não quer contar combinações de palavres, mas o Langenscheidt mistura palavras únicas e combinações de palavras: a entrada es p.e. "espaço", e no artigo tem "espaço aereo" e "espaçoso".

Eu usei também um terceiro dicionário, o pequeno dicionario bilíngüe de Oxford University Press com cerca de 20.000 entradas em cada sentido. Aqui eu tinha 12.500 palavras, o que representa 63%. Isto é como o esperado: embora a gente espere que obter uma alta porcentagem nos pequenos dicionários, debido ao feito que acolhem todas as palavras mais comunes, na prática nunca vai saber todas as palavras, e faltam os termos científicos que são tipicamente internacionais e, portanto, fáceis.

-------

Portuguese wordcount: 21.900 with a fairly big monolingual dictionary from Oxford University Press with an estimated 51.000 words, 19.800 with the pocket dictionary from Langenscheidt with an estimated 27.800 single words (it only gives a number for words AND expressions), and finally 12.500 with the somewhat smaller dictionary from Oxford University Press, which states that it has arund 40.000 headwords, i.e. around 20.000 in each direction, and of those I'm supposed to know 63%. Small dictionaries are supposed to focus on the most common words of any language, so you expect to have low absolute numbers, but high percentages - though in practice there will be a residue even when using these books. On the other hand the large dictionaries often contain a lot of scientific and other international terms, which at least gives mys word counts a push upwards.

And while doing these counts I have been watching National geographic, which among other things has shown a program about global extinctions. We have discussed these things here, like for instance the Permian extinction and its supposed cause, the Siberian basalt flows that lead first to an Ice age and then to an extremely hot and arid climate, so in sense there wasn't much new information in the program. But like languages, popular scientific knowledge needs a brush-up now and then, and programs like National Geographic are good at that. Before that there was a program about the the Nabatean ruintown Petra, which I have visited about ten years ago.


Edited by Iversen on 07 May 2009 at 2:35am

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Fasulye
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 Message 834 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 6:39am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
And while doing these counts I have been watching National geographic, which among other things has shown a program about global extinctions. We have discussed these things here, like for instance the Permian extinction and its supposed cause, the Siberian basalt flows that lead first to an Ice age and then to an extremely hot and arid climate, so in sense there wasn't much new information in the program. But like languages, popular scientific knowledge needs a brush-up now and then, and programs like National Geographic are good at that. Before that there was a program about the the Nabatean ruintown Petra, which I have visited about ten years ago.


EN: It's good if you from time to time mention such knowledge, this helps me to keep it active. The Permian extinction was the largest extinction in the earth's history. I didn't know so exactly the reason for it.

Fasulye-Babylonia
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Iversen
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 Message 835 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 12:34pm | IP Logged 
There are several good sites that describes this extinction, and as usual Wikipedia has a splendid article about it.

The first half describes the pattern of extinction (including the strange fact that Lystrosaurus, a plumb lille thing with two fangs and a face that only its own mother could love, became the dominant land mammal in a period that lasted several million years). Even the insects were hard hit at this event, which is unusual.

The causes of the event are discussed from around midway through the article, and the Siberian lava flows also are mentioned here. Near the end of the article a new theory is discussed, namely that large methane hydrate deposits on the seafloor were disturbed by the lava flows and vast quantities of the greenhouse gas methane were released - on top of the gasses released directly by the volcanic activity.

As a supplement to the article I would also mention that all the continents at this time were concentrated in one supercontinent Pangea, and even without the Siberian traps this distribution of the landmasses would have been enough to make for some really extreme weather on land and a scarcity of low seabed.

Bad, bad time to be around!



Edited by Iversen on 07 May 2009 at 12:45pm

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 Message 836 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 6:57pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
There are several good sites that describes this extinction, and as usual Wikipedia has a splendid article about it.

The first half describes the pattern of extinction (including the strange fact that Lystrosaurus, a plumb lille thing with two fangs and a face that only its own mother could love, became the dominant land mammal in a period that lasted several million years). Even the insects were hard hit at this event, which is unusual.

The causes of the event are discussed from around midway through the article, and the Siberian lava flows also are mentioned here. Near the end of the article a new theory is discussed, namely that large methane hydrate deposits on the seafloor were disturbed by the lava flows and vast quantities of the greenhouse gas methane were released - on top of the gasses released directly by the volcanic activity.

As a supplement to the article I would also mention that all the continents at this time were concentrated in one supercontinent Pangea, and even without the Siberian traps this distribution of the landmasses would have been enough to make for some really extreme weather on land and a scarcity of low seabed.

Bad, bad time to be around!


NL: Een belangrijke gebeurtenis! Ik heb me dat artikel van de Wikipedia nu gecopieerd en in WordPad gezet, zodat ik het goed leesbaar kon uitprinten (ik gebruik altijd lettergrootte 14 pt). Als ik in het weekend wat tijd heb, zal ik dit onderwerp in detail bestuderen. Maar mijn nieuwe baan is zo inspannend, dat ik ook alle talenstudie alleen in het weekend kan doen. Dus dan moet ik maar eens kijken, hoe ik het kan redden. Het is wat vervelend, als ik alle privéactiviteiten op twee weekenddagen moet beperken.

Fasulye-Babylonia
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Iversen
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 Message 837 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 9:04pm | IP Logged 
SV: Jag har just hört ett svensk kätteri: "Det är större skillnader inom de två grupperna (organiskt och icke-ekologiska produkter), än det är mellan de två grupperna, säger professor Bergström på svenska TV1. Så nu kommer han antagligen bli slaktat av de politiskt korrekta - och dom finns många av i Sverige. Straks etterpå diskuterades hur man skulla kunna omlägga hele lantbruket til ökologisk drift.

Innan dess såg jag en intressant sändning om människans historia från ett genetiskt perspektiv. Man kan spåra folkvandringerne genom isolerade mutationer, och därigenom har man funnet att alla nuvarande människan härstamma från en enda man med en mutation som kallas M168. Något liknande har också demonstrerats med kvinnor, - man talar om én kvinna som ble stammor till hela nuvarande mänskligheten. Förutom detta talades om genom kontroll av gener ved artificiell insemination att kunna undvika 6.000 sjukdomar kopplade till särskilda genfel. Och i framtiden måste vi räkna med att det kommer att finnas människor som försöker at odla superbarn genom att analysera generne in ägg og spermier från deras föräldrar. Men det är förmodligen lättare att odla maratonlöpare än regnamästare och polygloter.

GER: Ich habe natürlich auch Wörter gezählt - auf Deutsch. Ich habe mein Dänisch-Deutsches Gyldendal Wörterbuch benutzt. Es gibt dort 80.000 Stichwörter, und meine Berechungen sagen daß ich davon 53% kenne, d.h. 41400 Wörter. Deutsch ist aber eine Sprache mit vielen zusammengesetzen Wörter und Derivate, so dass diese Zahl nicht direkt vergleichbar ist mit den Zahlen der romanischen Sprachen, die bevorzügen Kombinationen aus mehreren Wörtern. Ich schätze daß wenigstens 10000 Wörter 'durchschaubar' sind, d.h. Wörter wie Kulturaustausch, -bau, -erbe, -denkmal, -geschichte, -haus uzw. Das Gyldendal Wörterbuch ist verhältnismäßig groß, so ich habe eine Kontrollzählung gemacht mit mein Deutsch<-->Polnisches Kompaktwörterbuch von Pons. Hierzu wird nur angegeben, daß es dort alles in allem 130.000 Stichwörter und Ausdrücke gibt, d.h. 65.000 Deutsche Wörter. Davon schätze ich daß es rund 38.000 blaugeschriebene Aufschlagwörter drin gibt, und angeblich sollte ich davon 29.500 kennen, also volle 78%. Ich finde das etwas überraschend - ich hätte nur mit so hohen Zahlen für Englisch gerechnet.

*EDIT Aufschlagwörter --> Stichwörter
Ich habe übrigens meine eigene Schätzung der Stuchwöter des Gyldendals gemacht, - 80.400, fast wie angegeben vom verlag

--------

I have watched Swedish TV: first something about the genetic history of mankind, where it apparently has been possible to trace our history back through a series of mutations, until you end up with an African Adam who was the first with a genetic marker called M168. After that the prospect of weeding out hereditary illnesses and maybe even 'improving' on the human species was discussed. And finally I watched a program where a Swedish professor stated that there wasn't all that much evidence for the added value of ecological food, - there was less difference between ecological and non-ecological foods than within each of these groups. But this is heresy in Sweden, so right afterwards there was a lot of talk about how to convert willy-nilly all agriculture in Sweden to ecology.


Edited by Iversen on 08 May 2009 at 7:34pm

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Iversen
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 Message 838 of 3959
07 May 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged 
I had just time for one more word count, and this time it was something of a joke - I counted my native Danish wordstock. For this I used an old specimen of "Retskrivningsordbogen" with 60000 words. To save time I just counted the words I didn't know, and on 4 pages I got 8 words. 8 words times 595 pages divided by 4 pages = 1190 words, so I presumable know 98 % of the lexemes in that dictionary = 58.810 words. But Danish is my native language, so I would be quite annoyed if I didn't know most of its non-technical words. If I had had a bigger dictionary my result would have been higher.


Edited by Iversen on 08 May 2009 at 5:51pm

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 Message 839 of 3959
08 May 2009 at 6:29am | IP Logged 
DE: Toll, ich habe genau 15 Minuten Zeit, das Forum zu benutzten, denn um 6:30 Uhr muss ich schon aus dem Haus. Das wird also speed-writing! 78 % passive Wortkenntnis Deutsch ist ein sehr guter Wert! Es sind aber "Schlagwörter", "Aufschlagwörter" gibt es nicht. Ich verstehe das Wort "willy-nilly" überhaupt nicht. Meine Zeit ist jetzt schon um...oh je.

Fasulye-Babylonia
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Recht
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 Message 840 of 3959
08 May 2009 at 2:22pm | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:
DE: Toll, ich habe genau 15 Minuten Zeit, das Forum zu benutzten,
denn um 6:30 Uhr muss ich schon aus dem Haus. Das wird also speed-writing! 78 %
passive Wortkenntnis Deutsch ist ein sehr guter Wert! Es sind aber "Schlagwörter",
"Aufschlagwörter" gibt es nicht. Ich verstehe das Wort "willy-nilly" überhaupt nicht.
Meine Zeit ist jetzt schon um...oh je.

Fasulye-Babylonia


Willy-nilly describes something that is rather thoughtlessly or carelessly done, often
on a whim.

That's what it means in America at least :)


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