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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1433 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 1:56am | IP Logged 
Btw. When I got home today I found a letter from my evil cable TV provider (Yousee). Ouch!

Norwegian NRK2 will disappear totally from the screen, and Swedish TV4 will only be shown via a digital box. SAT1 from German and the Anglophone History and Explorer Channels will from now on cost money on top of the sum I pay for the largest standard package. As 'compensation' we will get a number of Danish or English programs; of these one may potentially be OK (it is allegedly a cultural program, whatever that means), the rest is rubbish. So all in all my TV program portfolio will be even more loaded with low-intelligence abysmal junk, and the Nordic programs will be cut down.

The legal problem is that the sharks can refuse to transmit the few valuable programs unless I also buy their worthless garbage collection, and because most people just sit in their sofas and watch whatever pours out of their TV set there isn't much hope for a change. We have a series of channels called TV3, 3+, TV4, TV5, TV6, TV9 etc. plus MTV, Voice, silly sports programs and several film channels which I never ever watch. But I can't buy supplementary channels without paying for the refuse.

The only hope is that I can eventually get all my TV through the internet without the interference of a program provider.


Edited by Iversen on 26 October 2009 at 2:07am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1434 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 8:15am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Btw. When I got home today I found a letter from my evil cable TV provider (Yousee). Ouch!

Norwegian NRK2 will disappear totally from the screen, and Swedish TV4 will only be shown via a digital box. SAT1 from German and the Anglophone History and Explorer Channels will from now on cost money on top of the sum I pay for the largest standard package. As 'compensation' we will get a number of Danish or English programs; of these one may potentially be OK (it is allegedly a cultural program, whatever that means), the rest is rubbish. So all in all my TV program portfolio will be even more loaded with low-intelligence abysmal junk, and the Nordic programs will be cut down.


That's indeed very bad news!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 26 October 2009 at 8:16am

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Siberiano
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 Message 1435 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 10:36am | IP Logged 
Iversen, как ты все эти языки держишь в голове? Мне трудно не выкинуть испанское слово в разговоре по-итальянски, а на каком языке из них я думаю, когда на них разговариваю, уже и не знаю. И иногда в уме проскакивают намного более лаконичные обороты на английском. А чтобы столько языков...
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Iversen
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 Message 1436 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 12:25pm | IP Logged 
RU: Siberiano, нет проблема держить эти языки в моей голове (хотя я иногда ошибочно предполагаю, что слово употребляется в языке, просто потому, что оно используется в тесно связанных языках). Как только я знаю язык достаточно хорошо, чтобы использовать его на практике для чтения и прослушивания, становится легко сохранить его живым. Проблема заключается, чтобы узнать новые языки, потому что каждый новый язык получает слишком мало внимания. И, к сожалению Русский является одним из языки в моем списке, который получил слишком мало внимания..

---

Siberiano asked me how I can keep so many languages in my head without mixing them. My answer is that the problem isn't the languages I already have learnt (although I sometimes in good faith 'borrow' a false friend or use a construction inspired by a related language - but I'm not too troubled by that). The problem is that I don't have time enough to study my new languages properly, and my Russian is certainly a victim of this.

PS: что "лаконичный" ?



Edited by Iversen on 26 October 2009 at 12:59pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1437 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 1:20pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DU: Reisen kan het best worden gebruikt in het leren van talen, als je al bijna een taal spreekt - anders kunt je geen verbinding kunt maken met de lokale bevolking. Hoe beter je kunt de taal spreken, hoe beter je kunt kansen vinden en benutten om war iets meer te leren. Maar met de achtergrond van Fasulye in het Duits, Nederlands en Engels werd Deens zeker geen groot probleem, vooral met bijna twee jaar naar het bezoek in Kopenhagen in 2011.

I am totally confinced that Fasulye - with her solid background in German, Dutch and English - will become fluent in Danish long before 2011 where she'll visit Copenhagen. And this is good, because beginners don't profit as much from a holiday abroad as people who are at least close to being able to speak the local language.


EN: It's good that I have a deadline for my Danish - July 2011. Iversen is an optimist concerning my learning ability of a new language and I will take this as a challenge. I see the point that with too limited beginner knowledge of a new language I cannot really do much with it in a foreign country. Iversen must know this, as he is used to trying out his new languages in foreign countries. I have now one year and a half time to learn Danish (and Turkish), Danish will be my first language aquired by self-study. I find this an interesting experiment. I am much more flexible now, as I am not dependent any more on finding suitable VHS-language courses.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 26 October 2009 at 1:21pm

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SII
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 Message 1438 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 1:22pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
RU: Siberiano, нет проблема держить эти языки в моей голове (хотя я иногда ошибочно предполагаю, что слово употребляется в языке, просто потому, что оно используется в тесно связанных языках). Как только я знаю язык достаточно хорошо, чтобы использовать его на практике для чтения и прослушивания, становится легко сохранить его живым. Проблема заключается, чтобы узнать новые языки, потому что каждый новый язык получает слишком мало внимания. И, к сожалению Русский является одним из языки в моем списке, который получил слишком мало внимания..


There are some little mistakes.

Siberiano, нет проблемы держить эти языки (нет кого? чего[?] -- gen.)

Как только я узнаю язык достаточно хорошо OR Если я знаю язык достаточно хорошо

Проблема заключается в том, чтобы изучать новые языки ("узнать" isn't used in this context)

И, к сожалению, русский является одним из языков в моем списке


"Лаконичный -- это "краткий, простой, без лишних слов".

Ваш русский весьма хорош для языка, "который получил слишком мало внимания" :)

Edited by SII on 26 October 2009 at 1:26pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1439 of 3959
26 October 2009 at 3:34pm | IP Logged 
Siberiano, нет проблемы для меня держить эти языки в моей голове ...

Thanks to SII for the corrections.



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Iversen
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 Message 1440 of 3959
27 October 2009 at 2:45pm | IP Logged 
I have made some searches on the internet to find a simple source with percentages for both native and second languages for every single country of the whole world, but so far without result - maybe it was too optimistic. I faintly remember a thread with some fairly reliable estimates of the numbers of people who speak more than one language in the EU, and the general tendency in Europe also is that the language(s) spoken by the population are used by the administration. This system already is compromised somewhat in Asia, but in Africa it breaks totally down.

There is a list of official or at least de facto national languages here. In Europe it is sometimes complicated by the inclusion of minority languages, but in Africa the list simply can't be used as a guide to the language actually spoken. There are some standardized and sober listings both of languages and of tribes at the CIA homepage, but generally without numbers.

I have tried to find some other reliable sources through the internet, but during this process I have found wildly differing numbers for the number of people who can speak English, French, Portuguese and other 'imported' languages in Africa, and the sheer number of tribal languages is overwhelming. The official languages of the world can be gleaned from this list. However some official languages are apparently only spoken by a tiny minority. For instance in Botswana English is an official language, while Tswana is the national language. But for once there are some realistic statistics:

Setswana 78.2%, Kalanga 7.9%, Sekgalagadi 2.8%, English 2.1% (official), other 8.6%, unspecified 0.4% (2001 census)

2,1% isn't much - but as long as guides and hotel personnel speak English you can take a holiday there without noticing how 'special' these blessed people are.

At the Nationalmaster site (choose category "languages") there are some interesting, but incomplete statistics over the number of people who speak English, French and Spanish in different countries, both in absolute numbers and as percentages (based on data from Ethnologue). But apparently these numbers only refer to native speakers. A good example is none other than Spain, where allegedly just 70% speak Spanish. But you can put around 17% Catalans on top of that which practically all have Spanish as at least their second language - and many in reality as their primary language. Furthermore add the population of Galicia and some other Northerly regions in Spain (including the Basque territory, which is bilingual), and you have almost covred the country. Those 70% are simply not realistic.

The Ethnologue site is certainly a respectable and very informative source, but it has its quirks: it has a tendency to assume that everywhere there is a dialect (which more often than not is defined as a language by this site) that dialect or language is spoken by the local population. It seems to be fairly reliable when assessing 'dislocated populations', but it doesn't have much to say about the numbers of secondary language learners in specific countries outside these populations. So you can't just add numbers and expect to find the answer you wanted.

Another example: According to the 2007 report by the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie no less than 80% of the population in Gabon speak French at an unspecified, but maybe useful level, - against 2,7 % in Nationmaster.

In an article about Senegal in Wikipedia it is stated that 40% have Wolof as their native language, plus 40% who has it as their second language. Another source indicates that 24% have Peul (Fula) as their native language. For the numbers are 15-20% of the male population, but only 1-2% of the women. And this is a country that has French as its sole official language, and whose late president Senghor was a member of the French academy!

In Mali the number of speakers of French was around 21% in 1986 (without an indication of gender), almost exclusively as a second language, and it may be lower now. But again, as a tourist you will meet a disproportionally large number of those who do speak French.

So it will take time and luck (and maybe the odd miracle) to find even approximative numbers that include both L1 and L2 languages around the world.


Edited by Iversen on 27 October 2009 at 2:48pm



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