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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Préposition
Diglot
Senior Member
France
aspectualpairs.wordp
Joined 3248 days ago

186 posts - 283 votes 
Speaks: French*, EnglishC1
Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine)

 
 Message 2201 of 3959
06 January 2011 at 11:50am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
FR: J'aime bien étudier des langues nouvelles, mais il ne faut pas pour autant oublier
celles on sait depuis longtemps. Je me suis trouvé devant un hiatus bref dans mes devoirs au travail et j'en ai
profité pour lire quelques lignes en français. Comme d'habitude j'ai commencer par une recherche Google (est-
ce qu'on peut dire 'googler' en français) avec des termes bien choisis, et cela m'a conduit vers une page
www.futura-
sciences.com
, ou l'on peut lire des textes courtes sur des thèmes scientifiques. Lá j'ai par example trouvé
quelques informations sur le squelette féminin trouvé dans la grotte de Denisova (dans les montagnes de l'Altaï
au sud de la Sibérie) et vieux d'environ 30.000 années ou plus. D'abord on a étudié son ADN mitochondrien
(transmis uniquement de la mère aux enfants), puis on a pu séquencer une patie de son ADN, et il s'avère que
cette petite fille n'était ni Homo sapiens, ni néanderthalien. Et on se demande: jusqu'à quel point avons nous le
sapiens eu la compagnie d'autre espèces humaines sur ce planète? Il est bien connu qu'il a eu une survivance
fortuite d'une autre espèce sur l'île indonésienne Flores, le célèbre 'hobbit' dont l'authenticité maintenant semble
assurée. Cet hominide diminutif était probablement en ligne directe un descendant de l'Homo erectus, tandis que
la fille de Denisova semble être plus proche a nous, mais quand-même: combien d'autres hommes/hominides y
avait t-il au monde vers la fin de la dernière glaciation?

I had a free spare moment at my job today and promptly used it to read some French - it is OK to study new
languages, but you also have to tend to the old ones. Through a Google search I found a French homepage with
short messages about scientific themes (something like Science Today), www.futura-sciences.com, and here I
found an ultrashort message about the skeleton of a girl found in a cave at Denisova in the Altai mountains in
Siberia. She died somewhere between 30-48.000 years ago, and after studies first of her mitochondrial DNA and
now her nucleotide DNA the conclusion is that she wasn't a Homo sapiens, nor a neanderthal. So now it appears
that near he end of the last ice age we had not only a late (and diminutive) descendant of Homo erectus running
around on the Indonesian island Flores, but also a distant cousin who lived in Siberia. And the question is: how
many more whose bones just haven't been found yet?

By the way, another article(this time in English)
suggest that Ötzi - whom I visited in November - doesn't have direct descendants in the modern world. But who
wonders? After all Ötzi was the one who was killed.

FR: D'ailleurs j'ai eu une idée. La méthode que j'ai utilisé pour écrire quelque chose en Nouveaux-
Norwegian approximatif pourrait aussi être employé pour écrire en par example l'ancien français ou occitan. Le
problème lá est le même: quelques ressources pour comprendre des textes du moyen-âge, mais quasiment rien
pour apprendre ces langues comme langues actives.


Just a couple of suggestions, I can't say they're corrections because you make perfect sense already, but they'd
be more idiomatic. In the first line, "de nouvelles langues" flows a bit better than "des langues nouvelles", and
apart from that, there are times when putting a comma would do wonder, for example in "le problème, là, est le
même". When I read the original, I was expecting the commas to be there, and it feels strange not to find them.
Of course I may just be really pedantic, but it would enhance your idiotmatic use of French. And you can say
"googler" if you want, no-one will stop you from doing so, but "chercher sur Google" is probably more used.
Finally, if you haven't found it already, this
website
has some material you could use to actively learn, and same
here.
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Iversen
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 Message 2202 of 3959
06 January 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for pointing out that I put too few commas (certainly an influence from English!), and for indicating some sites that might be relevant for my future studies of Old French.

FR: D'ailleurs j'ai trouvé sur www.futura-sciences.com un autre article, qui pourrait être d'intérêt linguistique: il parait que les néanderthaliens avait eux aussi le gène FOXP2, qui est étroitement lié chez nous à la cpacité physiologique de parler. On lit: "les deux individus dont l’équipe de Pääbo a étudié l’ADN, possédaient bel et bien cette version humaine du gène FOXP2, avec les deux mutations censées jusqu’à présent n’appartenir qu’à H. sapiens. Que faisait-il là?"

One more piece of information from the same French site: the Neanderthals had the gene FOXP2, which seems to be necessary for the physical production of speech in Homo sapiens. The discussion now is when it actually appeared, but if the Neanderthals also had it would be quite surprising if they didn't also speak. Which of course doesn't indicate anything about the kind of language they may have spoken.


Edited by Iversen on 07 January 2011 at 11:20am

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Préposition
Diglot
Senior Member
France
aspectualpairs.wordp
Joined 3248 days ago

186 posts - 283 votes 
Speaks: French*, EnglishC1
Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine)

 
 Message 2203 of 3959
06 January 2011 at 3:21pm | IP Logged 
I didn't really mean to write "idiotmatic", that's a rather odd mistake… En tout cas, ces articles sont très
intéressants, notamment le deuxième, et je vais regarder de plus près leurs théories. C'est très étrange de se dire
qu'une simple mutation génétique fait que nous pouvons parler et avons construit un réseau d'idées et de pensées
aussi complexe, tandis que les animaux semblent s'être arrêtés au stade du vague échange social que nous
n'arrivons pas vraiment à déchiffrer.
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Iversen
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 Message 2204 of 3959
07 January 2011 at 12:28am | IP Logged 
Le fonctionnement du gène FOXP2 est connu surtout de quelques familles avec des mutations qui font le langage de leurs membres quasiment incompréhensible pour des raisons essentiellement motoriques, peut-être à travers une malfonction du centre Broca dans le cerveau. Pourtant il est aussi soutenu que ces mêmes personnes ont des problèmes a former des phrases. Il serait trop simpliste de dire que FOCP2 est le 'gène de la langue' tout bonnement, mais il semble être nécessaire pour qu'on puisse parler. Et si les Néanderthaliens l'avait, il est vraisemblable que eux aussi pouvaient parler. Je me souviens d'un article dans "Language" (en Anglais) où on a exprimés des doutes, par exemple avec l'argument que la façon de leur bouche aurait exclu la formation de certaines voyelles. Mais ceci ne suffit pas à dire qu'ils ne puissent parler leur propre langue, soit-elle dépourvue de certains sons.

PS: je regarde en ce moment un programme sur Vincent van Gogh en Anglais sur le "History Channel". Et qu'est-ce que je vois? Une peinture d'un certain Cormond avec lequel van Gogh a brièvement étudié la peinture. Et le thème favori de ce Cormond était justement des peintures de neanderthaliens grotesques!


Edited by Iversen on 07 February 2011 at 3:15pm

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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 2205 of 3959
07 January 2011 at 11:15am | IP Logged 
POR: Não é um segredo que o meu gênero favorito literária não é o romance, mas revistas de ciência popular. Se eu não posso pegá-los no papel, os leio na internet. Ontem eu escrevi sobre a paleontologia com a ajuda dum site francês, futura-sciences, mas hoje eu mudei línguas ao português. Eu perquisi novamente "Denisova" e encontrou, entre outras coisas, um site brasileiro http://hypescience.com, localizado ca cidade de Curitibia. Ele têm artigos do mesmo tipo que aqueles do site frances, mas também aborda os temas mais bizarros, o que pode ser bastante divertido. E como escreve num artigo "Ler as materias mais bizarras do hype faz bem a saude":

Não, não é propaganda sem fundamento! Uma pesquisa oficial revelou que sentir nojo ou ficar espantado, como você fica ao ler as matérias sobre os assuntos mais bizarros do nosso site, faz bem para a saúde. Carne apodrecida, larvas, defuntos-sabão, vinho de filhotes de ratos – você encontra de tudo aqui no Hype. E essas nossas matérias bizarras são o que basta para deixar os leitores com um sentimento de nojo. E ficamos com nojo por um bom motivo, segundo uma pesquisa da Escola de Higiene e Medicina de Londres.

Bem, o que têm? Talvez algo sobre um mistério profundo para a metade da humanidade: "Sobre o que as mulheres coversam quando quando vão ao banheiro" (um nome que també tem um certo interesse do ponto de vista sintático!). O "Japoneses instalam videogames em banheiros públicos". E - falando dos japonesos - "Sokunshinbutsu: os monges auto-mumificados do Japão". Para automumificar-se vôcé tem que emmagrecir-se durante 1000 dias por uma dieta de nozes e castanhas, depois 1000 dias comendo sômente raízes de pinheiros e bebendo chá venenoso, e ao fim vôcé comença a sua última meditação na sua tumba. Nesta fase você fica tão envenenado que mesmo as bactérias e fungi não se incomodam para comer você.

Yesterday I studied a French site with short scientific messages, including articles about paleontology. Today I have had a look at a similar Brazilian site, hypescience.com. I found it by searching for "Denisova" (inspired my yesterday's rant about a Siberian cave girl), and then I found this brazilian sites whose articles have the same length and - to some extent - character as those on the French site. However it also has a slightly more weird side - there is actually a special section for bizarre news (plus one for strange lists). This includes a study over the things women discuss in public toilets, videogames in Japanese public toilets and - speaking about Japan - about phenomenon "sokunshinbutsu", a kind of automummification performed by Japanese monks in the olden days. To become such a mummy you would spend 1000 days eating only nuts and chestnuts to get rid of your fat, then 1000 days eating only pine roots and drinking only poisonous tea - which makes you so unappetizing that even bacteria and fungi hesitate to eat you. And then you sit down to meditate in your tomb, where there is a bell which you ring once a day. When you stop ringing you have become a Buddha.


Edited by Iversen on 07 February 2011 at 3:18pm

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Hobbema
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 Message 2206 of 3959
07 January 2011 at 3:36pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
...Para automumificar-se vôcé tem que emmagrecir-se durante 1000 dias por uma dieta de nozes e castanhas, depois 1000 dias comendo sômente raízes de pinheiros e bebendo chá venenoso, e ao fim vôcé comença a sua última meditação na sua tumba. Nesta fase você fica tão envenenado que mesmo as bactérias e fungi não se incomodam para comer você.


Nossa. Não acho que quero ser uma Buddha.
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Iversen
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9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2207 of 3959
10 January 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged 
RU: Am petrecut un week-end cu mama mea, şi după ce m-am întors la apartamentul meu, am scris un raport excursie pentru asocierea mea de vizita pe care am de Vardzia în Georgia. Din păcate, eu nu pot scrie despre el aici, deoarece eu nu pot scrie pe Kartuli. Dupa aceea, am toate acestea arbedjet: pentru ca am citit bancuri româneşti pe acest site [URL=http://bancuri.acasa.ro]bancuri.acasa.ro - din păcate, fără caractere speciale române şi accente. Un exemplu:

Cica ajunge Bin Laden la poarta raiului. Apare Sfantul Petru care ii zice:
-Tu doar nu vrei sa intri?
La care Bin Laden ii raspunde:
-Nu, dar aveti voi 3 minute sa iesiti!!!

Şi acum aud televiziunea prin internet din Republica Moldova - - ceva despre crăciun şi copii jucându-se în zăpadă şi cântând colinde. Am crezut ca să am fost peste această etapă, dar nu - se întoarce crăciun pentru totdeauna la noapte ca Dracula.

--

I have visited my mother, and given that she hasn't got an internet conenction I haven't been able to update my log. Then after my return in the late afternoon I first wrote a little thing about my visit to Vardzia in Georgia in 2000 for the magazine of my travel club - but I can't comment on it here as I don't speak Kartuli.

After that I have been working hard reading Romanian jokes, including this one:

Bin Laden arrives at the gates of Heaven. St. Peter appears and say to him:
- You don't expect to get in, do you ?
To that Bin Laden answers:
- No, but you have 3 minutes to get out!

To supplement this taxing and serious activity I have been listening to internet TV from Moldova. However it was all about Christmas and small children playing in the snow, and when they began to sing Christmas Charols I lost my patience and switched to Icelandic Radio (RUV1). A lady reads something called "Meira um Guðnýju Jónsdóttur frá Galtafelli". It is boring, but better than Christmas charols. In a moment I'll do something even better: sleep.

Edited by Iversen on 11 January 2011 at 8:28pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4837 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2208 of 3959
10 January 2011 at 10:54am | IP Logged 
Just a useful link for those who want to learn Bahasa Indonesian: at www.bahasakita.com I have stumbled over a treasure trove of articles about this language, supplemented with useful articles about cultural aspects of its use. For instance there is an article about the relatively scarce use of "terimah kasih" ("thanks"), but also one about ways to give orders without being too rude - for instance to your taxi driver who is playing the radio too loudly: "Pak, tolong dikecilkan dikit ya" (literally "Pak, please it be turned down a little, yes."). What a useful sentence!

Edited by Iversen on 10 January 2011 at 3:14pm



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