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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1905 of 3959
26 June 2010 at 7:36pm | IP Logged 
Nice pun (the "naughties")... but alas, the 00s were not particularly naughty

CAT: Avui és dissabte, i he estat a casa tot el dia. Per tant em vaig posar a buscar a la meva biblioteca i considerar quines idiomes he descuidat una mica recentment. I no puc negar que el català no hagui pres molt del meu temps en els darers mesos. Així que vaig prendre la meva Enciclopèdia Catalana, Català-Anglès, i el va obrir per una pàgina a l'atzar."Cas" - una paraulla qua entra en moltes expressions idiomàtiques. Per tant he fet tans sols una pàgina de lista de paraulles (en el format habitual amb tres columnes), pero tres pàgines amb expressiones. Coneixía já la majoritat d'elles, pero generalment tan sols passivament. En un diccionari d'aquestes dimensions (39.000 entrades i 842 pàgines) les paraulles que hi conviden poden aconseguir l'espai necessari, doncs hi ha bastant material d'estudi

Hi ha expressions completes com a "ésser un cas de consciència de fer alguna cose" ("to make a point of doing something", - sin obligació moral en la versió anglesa), pero la majoritat son blocs curts: "si per cas" = "should the occasion arise". Aquesta forma de treballar al costat d'un llenguatge clàssic de les paraules i pàgines en blanc per a l'expressió és un mètode raonable quan parlem de un llenguatge que ja coneix prou bé.

----

I started the day with a look at my book shelves, and my Catalan dictionaries and grammars looked at me in a distinctly accusatory way .... OK, I may not have spent much time on Catalan lately. But on a Saturday spent entirely at home I could at last do something about my bad conscience. And my choice was to do a wordlist based on my Enciclopdia Catalana CAT-->EN dictionary, which is a fairly solid thing - exactly one kilogram and 39.000 headwords. By chance I opened it at a page with the words 'cas' and 'casa', so actually I just did one page of standard three-column wordlist and three pages of expressions on blank pages. And this is actually a rather logical distribution for a language where my vocabulary isn't something to sneeze at, but my idiomatic skills could do with a bit of upgrading.

After that I proceeded to a wee Bahasa session, based on a text with an interspersed Google translation (made with the "paste as text into Word" technique which I have described elsewhere). Actually Google doesn't recognize Malaysian, so I use its Indonesian translator plus a dictionary which I bought in Manila last year. But I have no lofty ambitions with this Janus-faced language so hopefully it doesn't matter too much that I am studying the wrong dialect. One thing that struck me is the use of reduplicated words: "tiba" = to come, "tiba tiba" = suddenly, "jangan" = don't, "jangan jangan" = otherwise, "malam" = night, "malam malam" = late night etc.    

From Bahasa I went on to do some studies in Irish grammar, using the amazing "Gramadach na Gaeilge" which I found less than a week ago. Today I studied the 'verbal particles' and their close relatives among the conjunctions. Maybe you normally think of a negation as some kind of adverb, but in Irish the negation word is seen as a verbal particle, which stands right before the verb and has a present and a preterite form (resp. "ni" and "niór", - or "cha(n)" and "char" in Ulster). Besides these words influence the following word, so "cha" is not just "cha", but "cha" + Lenition before most consonants, but "cha" + Eclipsis before d,t. Lenition is of course 'the thing with an h': "Cha chreideann sé é" ("not! believe he it"), while eclipsis is the one with a new first letter and a silent original one: "Cha ndéanaim a lethéid" ("not! do-I so"). But this is not the only verbal particle: there are prohibitive, interrogative, historical, relative (!), optative particles, and locative, temporal and even more conjunctions that fit the same kind of system.

One of these particles is particularly interesting: "ro", the historical particle, which almost has disappeared as a freestanding word. But it has left its imprint in the -r in the preterites of the other particles, EXCEPT in a few cases where it instead has clutched unto the verb. And thats why the past 'dependent' form of 'bí' (to be) doesn't look a bit like the present: "ro + bhí" --> "raibh". Irish is hilarious!


Edited by Iversen on 26 June 2010 at 9:12pm

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patuco
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 Message 1906 of 3959
27 June 2010 at 3:13am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Nice pun (the "naughties")... but alas, the 00s were not particularly naughty

It was a fairly good pun combining "nought" with "naughty" (the wonders of English!) but, as you say they weren't particularly bad. It was a case of "SSDD" (same sh*t, different decade).

By the way, what do we call this decade?



Iversen wrote:
Irish is hilarious!

That's one way of putting it.



EDIT: typos

Edited by patuco on 27 June 2010 at 10:32pm

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Hobbema
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 Message 1907 of 3959
27 June 2010 at 4:30am | IP Logged 
patuco wrote:
Iversen wrote:
Nice pun (the "naughties")... but alas, the 00s were not particularly naughty

It was a fairly good pun combining "nought" with "naughty" (the wonders of English!) but, as you same they weren't particularly bad. It was a case of "SSDD" (same sh*t, different decade).

By the way, what do we call this decade?


Wow. As a native English speaker I am amazed and amused that this discussion is taking place amongst Europeans.

The only reference to this decade I have heard here in the U.S. is "the Naughts". "Naughties" is not only a good pun; it's smart, it's clever, and I myself plan on using it from here on forward.

You guys are awesome.

Edited by Hobbema on 27 June 2010 at 4:34am

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Iversen
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 Message 1908 of 3959
27 June 2010 at 12:43pm | IP Logged 
Patuco wrote:
By the way, what do we call this decade?


The problem is of course that "ten" doesn't end in "-ty", which makes it necessary to improvise.

If "the tennies" didn't remind people about a certain ballgame then it might be a usable solution, whereas "the tens" would both break the naming rule and sound too much like "tense".. we don't need more worries right now.

The most tempting choice would be to call it "the teenies", while grey prosaic minds might prefer "the tenners".

In Danish the 00s have been dubbed "nullerne" (the zeroes, but in Danish with the connotation of 'no goodies'), and the 10s are certain to be called "tierne" because we call our 10 crown coins that. I wonder how the problems are solved in other languages.




Edited by Iversen on 27 June 2010 at 12:55pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1909 of 3959
27 June 2010 at 9:07pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:

In Danish the 00s have been dubbed "nullerne" (the zeroes, but in Danish with the connotation of 'no goodies'), and the 10s are certain to be called "tierne" because we call our 10 crown coins that. I wonder how the problems are solved in other languages.


DK: Det er interessant for mig ad vide. Pâ tysk âret 2000 var "das Millennium".

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 27 June 2010 at 9:10pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1910 of 3959
27 June 2010 at 9:41pm | IP Logged 
NO: Eg er akkurat ferdig med å sjå "Livets planet", ein lang engelsk naturutsendelse, men på norsk TV med norske undertekster. Eg lærte noen nye ord: en "havhest" er ikkje kva det høres ut til, men ein art fugl (engelsk 'fulmar', dansk 'mallemuk'). Og ein isbjørnehunn er ei 'binne'. Eg har også lyttet til meir enn tre timer Smetana, men dessverre kan eg ikke kommentere det på tsjekkisk.

I have just finished watching 'Livets Planet' (Planet of life??) with English text, but Norwegian subtitles - and I had turned down the sound because I also have listened to more than three hours of Smetana, while I worked my way through some paragraphs of Irish. I suppose that's called multitasking. But it functions fairly well, and I can feel that I understand more of the Irish text (the one about Galway) now than I did just a few days ago. However I can feel sorely that I have to learn the irregular verbs soon - there are not many, but those few are extremely irregular.


SW: Och just nu tittar jag på enormt förstorade bilder av fågelinfluensavirus i ett program från UR (undervisningsradion) på SVT1 (Sverige). Det är jättespännande att man nu kan se en enda viruspartikeln fylla hela skärmen.

And right now I have just finished* looking at bird flue vira enlarged so much that one single virus particle fill the whole screen. It is amazing that this has become possible.

* the program just stopped

Edited by Iversen on 28 June 2010 at 10:48pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1911 of 3959
28 June 2010 at 10:43pm | IP Logged 
PL: Vun 2.50 to 3.35 in de verledene Nacht hett NDR ennelk een Utnohm maakt un een Programm in Plattdüütsch utstrahlt. Ik müss toch slopen un heff 't dorför opnomen. Un goot so, wiel de hölve Tiet heffen se gruseliche Musiek speelt, und dat mag ik nich. Mit een Videoband kün ik dat aver schlich overspringen. Twee Reporters hebben Züüdafrika besoekt un mit Utlandsdüütschen schnackt - se hebben ook wat Lüü lernt "moin moin" te seggen. Nur een paar Personen heffen redig echt Platt snackt, de önnere blots Standarddüütsch, aver NDR hett tominnst dann Untertitel op Platt wiest (un op Düütsch wenn jichtenseen Platt echt snackt hett). 'T geeft aver veel te wenig Platt op NDR hüüttodags.

NDR (North-German Aroundflash, Norddeutsche Rundfunk) did for once cater for the dwindling Low German population and me by showing a program about Low- and Highgermans in South Africa - though the program was scheduled in the middle of the night so I had to tape it. And that was a good thing, because half of the program was spoiled by ugly background music. One of the interviewers spoke Platt, the other German, and the people they met were also roughly split half and half ... but whenever someone spoke High German there were subtitles in Platt and the other way round. It is in it self a rare sign af language-learner-friendly graciousness that there were subtitles - these are exceedingly rare in the dubbing-happy German television. It must be Hell to be deaf in Germany.

I have to add that programs in dialects/minority languages are even rarer in Danish TV. In contrast Swedish and Norwegian TV have regular programs in Sami and (in Sweden) Finnish.

Edited by Iversen on 28 June 2010 at 10:55pm

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patuco
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 Message 1912 of 3959
30 June 2010 at 1:08am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I have just finished watching 'Livets Planet' (Planet of life??)

Is this the BBC documentary series "The Living Planet" with David Attenborough?



Hobbema wrote:
Wow. As a native English speaker I am amazed and amused that this discussion is taking place amongst Europeans.

Just noticed this and I'm not sure why you'd be amazed.

Edited by patuco on 30 June 2010 at 1:09am



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