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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3377 of 3959
13 September 2013 at 11:37am | IP Logged 
It seems that our "undervisningsminister" Christine Antorini is responsible for ordinary schools below the university, and the full name of that ministry is "Ministeriet for Børn og Undervisning" (i.e. children and teaching). The socalled 'uddannelsesminister' Morten Østergaard is the leader of "Ministeriet for Forskning, Innovation og Videregående Uddannelser" (research, innovation and advanced education(s)).

As far as I know "education" covers both school systems, selfstudy and teaching your kids to behave. "Uddannelse" only covers school systems, but then everything is included, from elementary schools to vocational studies and university - but not homestudy unless you are inscribed at some kind of official school. If you have passed through an "uddannelsesinstitution" and got a diploma of some kind then you have got "en uddannelse" on your CV. Teaching your kids to behave is "opdragelse".

The funny thing is that our two ministers have divided the normal range of "uddannelser" (or "uddannelsesystemet" in singular) into two parts, and this may actually be wellmotivated, but still somewhat confusing. And in English the offical name of Mr. Østergaard's ministry doesn't even mention the universities: "Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation".

PS: I don't watch Borgen, - the harsh realities are more than enough for me. But it seems that fiction in this case came before facts. The series was first shown in Denmark in 2010, and our current prime minister - who according to second hand sources is like a mirror image of the prime minister in the series - only got her job in October 2011. So maybe the script writers really did possess divinatory skills.

Edited by Iversen on 13 September 2013 at 12:08pm

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montmorency
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 Message 3378 of 3959
13 September 2013 at 1:24pm | IP Logged 
Quote:

Teaching your kids to behave is "opdragelse".


That's for real, is it, and you aren't pulling my leg?

Because if it's real, it's also quite funny, because we normally* talk about bringing-
up children and well brought-up children in contrast to badly brought-up children, and
a very pejorative description of badly brought-up children is that they were "dragged-
up"!

* - normal for UK-ers of my generation anyway. Younger people all seem to use "raise",
US-style these days. My generation only "raised" crops (and "reared" animals).

.
.
.

It seems that life imitates art in Danish politics.
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Iversen
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 Message 3379 of 3959
13 September 2013 at 3:43pm | IP Logged 
I'm certainly not pulling your leg! "Opdragelse" really is teaching the bastards not to make noise or kills animals or steal or whack innocent old ladies in the head. Giving them food and shelter and electronics and clothes and other necessities while they grow up can be called "opfostring", but that's an old word which gives associations to orphanages and privat family care. However we don't really have a good substitute for it in modern Danish.
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montmorency
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 Message 3380 of 3959
13 September 2013 at 5:57pm | IP Logged 
"opfostring" suggests to me the English "fostering" - foster-parents looking after
chidren who either have no, or no reliable parents or other family, but short of legal
adoption (in which case they would become adoptive parents).
From what you say, that might have been something like its historical meaning.

(Various online dictionaries suggest either "upbringing" or "nurture").
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Iversen
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 Message 3381 of 3959
18 September 2013 at 1:42pm | IP Logged 
Sometimes I just do "more of the same", and then a few days may pass without an update here. But I have normally done something, except when I have visited my family, where it is hard to get silence and peace. I sometimes wonder how those of you live permanently with your family members ever get anything done. Have you got a bunker circled by hungry werewolwes and Potterian dementors who can keep them away?

Actually I visited my family this weekend, but since then I have been studying a number of Russian printouts about Babylon (strangely spelled with a 'soft' B), including a splendid long article from the Russian Wikipedia. I also progress steadily through Harry Potter I in Irish, and my speed has now reached an awesome full page per session (do remember that this is intensive study where I look everything up). I have finished my text collections about Indonesian zoos, Russian and non-Russian polyglots and Greek tourism in general, and now I'm ready to take on a collection of texts in Russian about the 'Planet Ice ball' theory (which states that the whole earth was covered by ice for several million years in the late Precambrian era) and another in Greek about the aquarium in Iraklion on Crete etc. etc. Besides I'm just now repeating the sections of my old textbook in Polish which I already have studied earlier this year, and I have listened (yes, listened!) to several interviews on Radio sonder Grense in Afrikaans. When I get time I'll also listen through the 1½ hour long talkshow in Platt which I found on Youtube last week, and I'll watch TV in all the available languages. But that's old hat, the reality is that I have done nothing fundamentally different from last week and the week before, except that I now have counted my Polish words.

PO: Liczyłem moje polskie słowa ostatniej nocy. Zrobiłem lista 100 polskich słów i pomyślałem: gdzie są inni te słowa ? Jak duże jest moje słownictwo teraz? Najpierw złapałem moje wielkie greckie Pons Compact i liczone słowa na 8 stron: słow znane, słów zrozumiały i słów nieznanych. Istnieje podobno 130,000/2 słowa w książce, ale tylko umieścić 36,000 słów w jednej z trzech kategorii (nie pochodnie, kobiece formy, nazw własnych itp.). Wyniki: znane słowa 100 (27% lub 9400 szacowane słowa), przezroczyste słów: 41 (11% lub 3900 słów), nieznane słów: 229 (62% lub 21,600 słów). Potem zrobiłem to samo z moim małym francuski <> polskiego słownika Oxforda - 8 stron, a liczyłem 13,600 slow z 35,000/2). Wyniki: znane słowa 94 (24% lub 8900 szacowane słowa), przezroczyste słów: 33 (8% lub 3100 słów), nieznane słów: 270 (68% lub 25400) słów. Czy ufam te numery? Nie wiem, większość zapożyczeń, ale tylko niektóre z form tubylcze polskie słowa. Ale jest dobry początek.

Do I really believe that I know 8-9.000 Polish words after just a few months of study? Well, no. The words I know are mostly the loanwords, and that leaves out a lot of indigenous Polish words. I might have categorized those loanwords as guessable, but on the other hand I was quite certain that they were in actual use because I have seen them in my dictionaries (the pages I counted were all in the first half of the alphabet, which I have used for wordlists - I have almost reached N). Or I may even have seen them in genuine texts, but that's a less likely scenario. The point is that remembering that a known word like "entuzjazm" also is used in Polish is much easier than it is to memorize its synonym "zapał" from scratch.

Except that now I'll never forget "zapał" because I have mentioned it here. Long live HTLAL!


Edited by Iversen on 20 September 2013 at 1:47pm

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Ogrim
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 Message 3382 of 3959
18 September 2013 at 2:12pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I sometimes wonder how those of you live permanently with your family members ever get anything done. Have you got a bunker circled by hungry werewolwes and Potterian dementors who can keep them away?


I really laughed when I read this, as sometimes I wish I had a bunker like that. Seriously though, it is a question of organising your time. Each case is probably unique, but normally I can find an hour or so when the kids do homework (or play videogames) and my wife is watching something on TV which doesn't interest me. I sometimes also stay in the office an extra 30 minutes or so after work, or I go in early, to get some quality study time in peace and quiet - although there is always the risk of a colleague knocking on the door. In short, I try to find that little extra time here and there which can be used for languages.

However, I will never be able to do all the things you do, Iversen.
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lorinth
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 Message 3383 of 3959
18 September 2013 at 4:21pm | IP Logged 
Quote:
I sometimes wonder how those of you live permanently with your family members
ever get anything done.


:-)) I have three kids, soon to be four. You're right, it's damn hard to find time. In
addition to the tricks Ogrim mentioned (before and after work), I also (used to) wake
up very soon in the morning, like 5 am, twice a week, before everybody was up, to
benefit from some peaceful study time.

Also, I have to drive a lot to bring one kid to the theater class, the other to the
music class, etc. While waiting for them, I always have my phone with tons of learning
resources, texts, vocab, SRS, mp3s, etc.

That and commuting time to and from work. And lunch time. Two minutes here, five
minutes there, every day.
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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 3384 of 3959
18 September 2013 at 11:37pm | IP Logged 
PLATT: Ik heff nu ennelk sien de talk op platt vun Eckernföör vun 1993 op Youtube. De Hochdüütsche Ansagerin höff toerst seggt, dat se gor nichs davun vörsteh, sien Platt vöör ümbi so schlimm wie sien Rätoromansch, un ik versteh dat nich - ik het fast allens mitkregt, un ik leev nich eens in Norddütschland wie de Froons vun NDR. Nu, wo ik schriev disse Epistel, is 't toch kloor, dat mien Platt een beten rostig woorn is.


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