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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3513 of 3959
31 January 2014 at 3:27pm | IP Logged 
Ouch! I should have been more careful about the Russian feminines. But of course the system is as indicated by Josquin: same distinction animate/inanimate as with the masculines with the same consequence for the accusative plural, but not for the accusative singular, where instead there is a class of verbs on -ь which has accusative = nominative for both animates and inanimates.

There may be more errors in the tables, but there are also cases where I have ignored certain small groups, like in Polish, where there is a number of 'personal' masculine nouns (mostly job names) which end in -a and generally are inflected as feminine nouns ending in -a ... with one minor exception: the accusative plural shares its ending (-ów) with the genitive plural, not the nominative.

Yesterday I read the chapters in my Slavica grammar on the declension of Polish substantives, and it was something of an ordeal! Without my small Pons grammar as a guide I would have been lost in the maelstroem of ordinary forms mixed with weird exceptions. At hindsight at least half the space was spent on intricacies concerning the vocative, which I don't need to know about as long as I don't have conversations in Polish with any native speakers. A few rules of thumb would have been nice to have, but maybe the patterns just are inherently chaotic. For instance it seems that the general rule concerning the genitive singular masculine is that humans and other living things have genitive singulars in -a, whereas the situation is more complicated for the inanimates. For them it is stated very briefly in half a sentence that they generally have -u, but then the author fills up 2-3 pages with exceptions that have -a instead. The thought occurs: wouldn't it have been easier to enumerate the cases with -u?

And after all the explanations there is a number of pages containing nothing but paradigms for nouns of all kinds, which probably have been quoted because the author (Mr. Swan) realized that nobody would be able to deduct a general system from all the pages with explanations.

Edited by Iversen on 31 January 2014 at 3:36pm

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 Message 3514 of 3959
31 January 2014 at 7:40pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DU: Zullen we nog weer mammoeten in de straten rond te lopen zien? "Know How" (nr. 12, 2013) - gekocht voor slechts € 3,99 - discuteert of een aantal uitgestorven dieren kan worden weerhersteld met behulp van bewaard gebleven DNA residuen. De mammoet word ook discuteert (onder de titel "hier komt een olimoet"), en de conclusie is hier dat men een genetisch gemodificeerde moderne olifant zou kunnen wijzigen, maar ondanks Dima en haar goed bewarte vrienden is de DNA immers te oud en versleten. Zou ik graag een Afrikaanse olifant met lang rood haar en oorbeschermers willen zien? Nauwelijks. Eerder en robot-mammoet.   

GER: Allerdings weiß ich, dass einige Zooleute den Tarpan und die Auerochsen wieder durch Rückwärtszuchtversuche zu beleben versuchen, und das Ergebnis kann z.B. in Hellabrun München gesehen werden. Aber die Tarpanen sollten wohl eigentlich steife Mähnen haben (wie das Prz.Pferd), und die Auerochsen müssten mindestens anderthalb Mal größer sein um ganz überzeugend zu sein.

DU: Het genoemde artikel zegt ook dat de Pyrenese steenbok is uitgestorven - het laatste vrouwtje (met de naam Celia) overleed in 2000. Spaanse wetenschappers hebben 2009 geprobeerd om een kloon (Celia II) te creëren, maar het kalf overleed slechts 7 minuten na de geboorte.

I recently bought a magazin called "Know How" in the Netherlands, and herein I have among other interesting things seen an article which discusses whether a number of extinct animals can be 'reconstructed' on the basis of old DNA samples (somewhat like Jurassic park, but with more recent fauna). The section about the mammoth is called "There comes an elemoth" ("Daar komt een olimout") because the most likely scenario would be to create a genetically modified elephant with inbuilt DNA fragments from the amazingly well preserved mammoths from Siberia. But even their DNA is too degenerate, and right now it isn't realistic to make an olimoet. Besides the cloning experiments which have been tried with fresh DNA haven't been too successful. For instance a clone was produced in 2009 with DNA sampled from the last Pyrenean ibex (lonely Celia, deceased in 2000), and a calf was was actually produced, but it died already after 7 minutes after birth due to pulmonary problems. And the pattern with all sorts of fatal defects in clones has also been seen in other cases. With really old DNA the number of fatalities would increase dramatically, so no, I don't expect to se mammoths in the streets soon.

RO: De fapt am citat în mod repetat articole de actualitate in limba română în acest fir, dar ar fi necesar o căutare pentru a găsi aceste mesaje. In mod general, dacă eu studiez un articol, vreau neapărat să aibă diacritice acest articol. Daca citesc in mod extensiu nu-i atât de important. De altfel, am impresia că scriere fără diacritice e mai frecvent pe internet decât scriere cu ortografia corectă și completă, cu excepția cazelor unde se aplica o politică editorială pe un site web (ca de pildă în Wikipedia).


NL: Ik vind dat de mensen op aarde meer aandacht en geld moeten besteden om de diersoorten te bewaren die nu van het uitsterven bedreigt zijn. De pogingen om mammoets en dergelijke dieren uit de prehistorische tijd weer tot leven te verwekken vind ik van secundair belang. Maar ik vind het wel heel boeiend om daarover te lezen zowel in jouw log maar ook in tijdschriften.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 01 February 2014 at 8:01am

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tarvos
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 Message 3515 of 3959
01 February 2014 at 12:11am | IP Logged 
Het probleem daarmee is wel: hoe kies je die diersoorten uit? Want een panda willen we
allemaal behouden, maar als het een ondersoort van de mug is...
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Iversen
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 Message 3516 of 3959
01 February 2014 at 1:28am | IP Logged 
DU: Wil ik dat de panda overleeeft? Ja, natuurlijk. Wil ik dat dierentuinen buiten China moet enorme bedragen investeren in de bouw van pandahuisjes en veel geld aan de Chinezen betalen om een panda te huren? Misschien niet - je kon waarschijnlijk meer uit jouw geld krijgen door het ondersteunen van projecten ten behoeve van andere bedreigde diersoorten.

BA I: Aku telah menggali buku panduan saya ke Singapura muncul dari bersembunyi lagi dan membaca paragraf. Ini adalah nostalgia hampir murni! Tapi di samping itu, saya juga belajar sebuah artikel di atas Gunung Krakatau, yang memiliki wabah besar pada tahun 1883 dan mungkin pada tahun 531.

GR: Παρατήρησα την ακόλουθη φράση, η οποία έχει μια αναφορική αντωνυμία και ένα άτονο προσωπκή αντωνυμία σε μια δευτερεύουσα πρόταση. Είναι η προσωπκή αντωνυμία απλά ένα αντικατοπτρισμός του "που" - ή έχει η αναφορική αντωνυμία χάσει τη αναφορική λειτουργία του για να μετατραπεί σε ένα συνδεδεμένο, ενώ η προσωπική αντωνυμία εκτελει το ρόλο του αντικειμένου;

"και που είναι το χρυσάφι που δεν το μοιράστηκες μάζι μας;" (and where is the gold that not it shared-you with us?)

Edited by Iversen on 01 February 2014 at 1:29am

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Iversen
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 Message 3517 of 3959
02 February 2014 at 11:51pm | IP Logged 
I have been on a family weekend, and as usual this has limited my language studies. But this evening I have at least watched a History channel program about the German archeologist Rust, who made important discoveries about Ice age cultures in Northern Germany. The good thing about the History Channel is that the programs may be in English, but the interviews often are left in the original languages. I have also watch TVE in Spanish (a program about the ways things like olive oil and lorries is produced), and I have worked on another Indonesian article about Krakatoa - and almost at the same time I saw a program on the History Channel about Campi Flegrei near Napoli, which is hiding a semi-slumbering supervolcano (people in North America can compare it to the one below Yellowstone National Park). And no, Vesuvius isn't a supervolcano, although it is situated in the same region of Italy. If Vesuvius explodes big time again Napoli could theoretically be gone, but if the volcano below the Campi Flegrei erupts big time then Italy is gone, and depending on the winds either Spain, Central Europe, Balcan or North Africa will be more or less inhabitable. On top of that we will definitely have a serious dip in world wide temperatures all over the world for a long time after the event. And we can't do a thing about it.

Good night and sleep well! Maybe the big eruption at the Flegrean fields won't happen in your life time.

Edited by Iversen on 03 February 2014 at 4:44pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3518 of 3959
03 February 2014 at 12:00pm | IP Logged 
"Most samesteads of every firststuff are unabiding. " (most isotopes of every element are unstable)

A remark in another thread lead me to reread the lesson in nuclear physics by the renowned SF author Paul Anderson in truly Germanic English (or Anglish or Ænglisc, as some like to call it). According to the ordinary English Wikipedia "In 1992, Douglas Hofstadter jokingly referred to the style as "Ander-Saxon". This term has since been used to describe any scientific writings that use only Germanic words.". There is a small community who like to think about the way English would have looked like if the battle at Hastings had had another winner, and some of them have made a homepage - sorry - headside called "The Anglish Moot" with an attached dictionary, others have created a Wikipedia in Ænglisc and there are more pages of the same kind out there if you are interested.

More Andersson:

"Formerly we knew of ninety-two firststuffs, from waterstuff, the lightest and barest, to ymirstuff, the heaviest. Now we have made more, such as aegirstuff and helstuff."

In a quote like this the word firststuffs (elements) are quite understandable, and "waterstuff" too because the name in German is "Wasserstoff". But "ymir", "aegir" and "hel" are surprising in this context. Two of them refer to "jætter" (giants) from the Nordic mythology, and "Hel" is the goddess of Hell. And problems like this abound in both (neo)Anglish and Ænglic articles about Witancræft.

So chances are that English (with an E-) survives a couple of years more…

EDIT: Speaking about English past and present, I just had a peek at the Anglosaxon chronicle, which can be found in its original form here and in a translation to Modern English here. The period I chose to read about was the years where Hengest and Horsa were invited to Britain by king Vortigern, and how they somehow came to the conclusion that the country was ripe for an invasion. And for the year 449 the original writer and a later "hand 8" unequivocally write that

Her Mauricius 7 Ualentines onfengon rice 7* ricsodon .vii. winter. 7 On hiera dagum Hengest 7 Horsa from Wyrtgeorne geleaþade Bretta kyninge gesohton Bretene on þam staþe þe is genemned Ypwinesfleot, ærest Brettum to fultume, ac hie eft on hie fuhton. [Hand 8: Se cing het hi feohtan agien Pihtas, 7 hi swa dydan 7 sige hæfdan swa hwar swa hi comon. Hi ða sende to Angle 7 heton heom sendan mare fultum 7 heom seggan Brytwalana nahtnesse 7 ðæs landes cysta. Hy ða sendan heom mare fultum. Þa comon þa menn of þrim mægþum Germanie, of Ealdseaxum, of Anglum, of Iotum.
* the sign "7" means & (ampersand)

(In their days Hengest and Horsa, invited by Wurtgern, king of the Britons to his assistance, landed in Britain in a place that is called Ipwinesfleet; first of all to support the Britons, but they afterwards fought against them. The king directed them to fight against the Picts; and they did so; and obtained the victory wheresoever they came. They then sent to the Angles, and desired them to send more assistance. They described the worthlessness of the Britons, and the richness of the land. They then sent them greater support. Then came the men from three powers of Germany; the Old Saxons, the Angles, and the Jutes.)


I have seen somewhere that there are modern historians who think that the whole thing went more smoothly and almost peacefully. But I trust the old chroniclers more than politically correct modern historians. Just read the notice for the year 457:

This year Hengest and Esc* fought with the Britons on the spot that is called Crayford, and there slew four thousand men. The Britons then forsook the land of Kent, and in great consternation fled to London.

*son of Horsa, who died in the battle at Aylesford in 455



Edited by Iversen on 03 February 2014 at 5:23pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3519 of 3959
05 February 2014 at 7:33am | IP Logged 
I woke up early today and decided to have a look at HTLAL. And lo and behold I found a thread that lured me into a study of the Old English pronouns and beyond Old English into the hallowed realms of Old High German. I was surprised to find a dual in Wardale's Old English Grammar (confirmed by Martin Lehnerts Altenglishes Elementarbuch), but even more surprised not to find one in Neumann & Batz' Althochdeutsches Elementarbuch - a dual in Old English must have been in the luggage of the old Saxons Hengest and Horsa. Now I just have to check whether there was one in Old Saxon (and maybe check Althochdeutsch with a larger grammar), but... well, I have seen enough old stuff by now. Maybe later.

FR: Hier j'ai lu (et partiellement relu) ma collection d'extraits du "hardware.fr forum" en français parlée écrite. Et quoique c'est terre déjà conquise je le trouve toujours intéressant de lire ce genre de textes. Si je me trouve en France je vais aussi supprimer les "ne" et les passé simples, mais ce que je fais est justement 'supprimer' quelque chose (ou faire d'autres changements, selon le cas). Or pour les français eux-mêmes il n'est pas question de supprimer quoi que ce soi car les "ne" n'étaient jamais là dans leur cerveaux - le mot "ne" est facultatif dans la langue parlée et obligatoire dans le discours écrite, et ceci n'est pas le seul cas où la langue écrite est tout autre chose que la langue parlée. On pourrait même dire que tous les français sont bilingues - avec une langue surtout parlée, l'autre surtout écrite. Moi, je pense dans le langage écrit et peux le transformer en parole parlée, mais si je vivait en France le deux formes du français seraient plutôt complémentaires et elles se trouveraient côte à côte au lieu que dans une relation de subordination.

RU: Кроме того, я изучал первую часть биографии Александрa Порфирьевичa Бородинa. Я очень хорошо знаю его музыку, и я знал, что его деятельность в качестве врача и химика заняло больше времени, чем на музыку, но я не знал, что он был незаконнорожденным ребенком князя. Но этот факт очень повлияло карьеры молодого Бородина - особенно в отрицательном направлении.

And I also had time to translate/retranslate a page of Asterix in Greek and an article about "Anak Krakatau" in Indonesian. Next time I visit Indonesia I'll definitely try to find an opportunity to discuss volcanism now that I have learnt a decent amount of vocabulary pertaining to this subject. And with Indonesia being one of the most active 'fire mountain' regions in the 'Ring of Fire' around the Pacific Ocean I suppose the Indonesians might be somewhat interested in the subject. Btw. I flew over several volcanoes on Java some years ago when I was supposed to relax two weeks on Bali (after a busy week on Sulawesi), but as it happened I spent half of the time on a visit to Surabaya and Yogyakarta. Maybe it seems strange to some that the the first thing I did after my arrival to a luxury resort at Sanur Beach was to buy flight tickets away from the place, but two weeks in such a place is too much.

Edited by Iversen on 05 February 2014 at 2:38pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3520 of 3959
06 February 2014 at 10:00pm | IP Logged 
ESP: Hodiaŭ mi lernis novan vorton en esperanto: cisternokamiono. Ĉi tiu min perpleksigis iom, ekde cisterno en dana lingvo estas la ujo kiu tenas la akvon de necesejo. Mi imagis aŭton kun necesejego por uzo en festivaloj, sed la titolo estis "16 migrantoj malkovritaj en cisternokamino" (el Radio Verda) kaj tial multaj personoj probable ne akomoditaĝus en neceseja akvujo. Sed "cisternokamiono" estas "tank wagon" en la anglo - ĝi ankoraŭ estas naŭza, sed fizike eblas.

I have learnt a new word in Esperanto in the worldfamous bus-back-home-from-my-job today: "cisternokamiono" ("16 fugitives found in a 'cisterno-that-thing'"), but at first I was puzzled because a cisterne in Danish normally is the white thing with the water at the back of a toilet. And you can't fit 16 persons in there. But it turned out to be a tank wagon - still unsavoury, but at least physically possible. And since then it occurred to me that they have got an gigantonormous byzantine cistern below Istanbul, and that one was used to keep drinking water. Lots of space there.

Apart from that I have been studying an article about the Myceneans in Greek (long live Wikipedia!), but right now I'm going to eat, and after that I'll finish the article. The Myceneans will have to wait so long. After all they waited ten years outside Troy...

Edited by Iversen on 07 February 2014 at 1:33pm



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