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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 985 of 3959
22 June 2009 at 10:25pm | IP Logged 
This was in fact an answer to a question in the thread about Picking up words from the dictionary, but it foisonned...

Toufik18 wrote:
... I have a question please, how could you build up advanced vocabulary in German for instence, or French or English, I can benifit so much from your approach, like how did you select which words do you intend to learn?
Thank you and soory for my unending questions :).


No problem.

In the very first phase of learning a new language you meet so many unknown words in everything you read (or listen to) that there will be more than enough for your wordlists, - so these will be a mixture of some extremely common words and a number of relatively rare words, but words that you apparently can meet in real life. At least you have a context.

At the other end of the scale - and using a midsize dictionary of say 30-50.000 lexemes - you should basically learn any unknown words, except those that are marked rare or obsolete or regional (but feel free to learn those words too)

The interesting thing is what you should do at the middle of the scale, where you know maybe a third of the words. Let's take a practical example. I have opened a French-Danish dictionary at a random place and see these words (with my own English renderings):

foison: à foison: "in abundance" ---- I know the verb "foisonner" ("abound"), so learning this substantive too comes almost for free --> it may be rare, but it's on the list!
foisonnant: well, it's a simple form of the verb, and I have already "foison" on the list ---> skip it, - one or two words from the same root is usually enough
foisonnement: same argument ----> skip it
foisonner: I already know that one ---> skip it, - but notice en passant that it also can be used about slake (a kind of grinded chalk that sucks water)

fol: see 'fou' ---> skip it! either it is a regular form of fou, or it is a rare and obsolete sideform. Learn 'fou' ("mad") instead, - and go study its morphology somewhere else

folâtre: playful --- probably rare, but it's a funny word and I would like to know it ---> on the list!
folâtrer:   ----> nope, I already have one of these, and this one is probably even rarer ----> skip it
folâtrerie: --- same argument, same conclusion (besides I can understand it based on 'folâtre' if I ever see it again)

foliacé: leaf-shaped ----> sounds rare, probably useful for gardeners and botanicists but not for me ---> skip it
foliaire: --- same argument, same conclusion
foliation: leafing --- I have a vague feeling that I have seen this one before*, so I've better learn it now ---> on the list!
* Of course I have ... in English!

folichon: -- bucolique, happy, mostly in negative sentences ---> hm, sounds like 15th century village life, probably halfway obsolete - and the conditions on the usage settles the matter ---> skip it

folie: madness --- very wellknown word, but I notice that it also can be used about a rustic mansion (P'tit Trianon at Versailles? or le Hameau?) ---> intriguing case ---> put this special use on the list

.... so the first column of my wordlist now contains these words (or expressions):

à foison
folâtre
foliation
folie
folichon ... because I still rembered this word in spite of having rejected it (this word apparently likes me, so I can just as well learn it)
....
...

I don't know whether this is enough to illustrate the process, but basically I let my gut feeling decide whether or not to accept a word on the list. After all this is not my last chance of learning the words I skip, - life goes on after this wordlist, and I may meet the rejected words later - and then I learn them.



Edited by Iversen on 22 June 2009 at 11:52pm

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Toufik18
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 Message 986 of 3959
22 June 2009 at 11:42pm | IP Logged 
This is more than enough for me, I used to add the word and its derivatives in the same wordlist, so I get about 4 or 5 words practicaly the same ,where was my head?
So that way, I can learn about half the dictionary or less, and I should learn the "base" word wheather it's a noun or a verb and just skip the rest, correct?
I hope I didn't burden you with all my questions, I've never learnt a language by myself, so I doupt everything and I am so jubilant to find expreienced people like you ready to help :)
Thank you so much, and oh, if you decide to learn Arabic, maybe I can help you .
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Iversen
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 Message 987 of 3959
22 June 2009 at 11:58pm | IP Logged 
In closely knit derivational groups there is usually something like a base member, but it is not always obvious whether it is the verb or the substantive. Besides frequency should also play a role, - the base word is not necessarily the most frequent. But if you learn 'the wrong one' it isn't a big deal, - learning one of the words in such a group will make it much easier to learn the others later on. In the absence of indications in the dictionary let your gut feeling decide which words to pick.

If I decide to learn Arabic my worst problem will be the lack of vowel indications in ordinary texts ... but right now I'm fully occupied. However thanks for the offer of assistance

Edited by Iversen on 23 June 2009 at 5:48pm

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Iversen
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 Message 988 of 3959
23 June 2009 at 9:48pm | IP Logged 
GR: Χθες αναφέρθηκα σε άρθρο της σελιδης Kathemerini.gr για την τελευταία μαμούθ στο Shropshire, και σήμερα έχω διαβάσει μερικά από περισσότερα άρθρα από αυτή την πηγή. "Οι παχουλοί ζουν περισσότερο". Ενα ιαπωνική μελετή έδειξε ότι οι λεπτοί άνθρωποι ζουν έξι με επτά χρόνια λιγότερο από τους παχουλούς και λιγότερο ακόμη κι από τους παχύσαρκους.. Kοιτάζω προς το στομάχι μου, τώρα πρέπει να σώσει την ζωή μου. Tώρα έχω τουλάχιστον έναν καλό λόγο να μην πίνω ξίδι., γιατí άλλο άρθρο αναφέρει ότι το ξίδι αντισταθμίζει συσσώρευσης λίπους στα ποντίκια. Αλλά το ιδιó κάνει - ένα τρίτο άρθρο πλειροφορεί, ότι εκεί είναι όλο το μεθάνιο που απελευθερώνονται από τα φυσικά αποθέματα του πλανήτη, και το μεθάνιο είναι ένα επικίνδυνο αέριο θερμοκηπίουο. Μέχρι τώρα είμαι από το ψυγείο και να φέρω ένα παγωτό...

GER: Gerade jetzt sehe ich deutsches Fern von Flensburg mit Ina Müller, aber leider nicht auf Platt. In einer halben Stunde werde ich Raiuno sehen weil es dann die Sendung Superquark gibt, aber vorläufig geht es schön auf Deutsch, und natürlich wird das Programm von einem Bot nach dem anderen ausgestrahlt. Weil Flensburg gerade außerhalb Dänemark liegt gab es besonders früher eine rege Handelsverkehr, indem die Dänen dort Spirituosen, Bier (sogar dänisches Bier!), Konfekture, Elektronik, Schallplatten und vieles anderes Zeug billig kaufen konnten. Meine letzte Fahrt dort erbrachte aber vorwiegend Bücher. Gerade jetzt besucht die Ina die zweisprachige Zeitung "Flensburg Dagblad" und einräumt dort mit roten Ohren, daß sie Dänisch nicht versteht - und gerade dafür wird sie dazu gezwungen "røde pølser" zu sagen - nicht schlimm, es hätte "rødgrød med fløde" sein können.

IT: Ed ora lascio Ina Müller e Flensburg, perché su Raiuno comincia ora l'ottimo programma scientifico "Super Quark" e non voglio perderlo. Il programma inizia con la fauna selvatica in Africa savana: leoni, struzzi, antilopi. Ed un solo facocero, ma non per molto tempo - i leoni hanno fame.

-----------

Yesterday I mentioned the Greek webjournal Kathemerini.gr in connection with an article about the last Shropshire mammoths. Today I have read some more of the articles (which are short and fairly easy to understand). I have read that slightly overweight people live longer than skinny people, so I must avoid drinking pure vinegar because according to another article that stuff makes it difficult to built fat reserves. But ultimately it doesn't matter because a third article states that the Earth's hidden reserves of Methane are now escaping due to global warming and that's a greenhouse gas and the climate will run amok with extreme temperatures and we will probably all die. So now I'll just get an ice cream from the fridge.

On TV there was a German program about Flensburg (a town just South of the Danish-german border), and the moderator was none other than Ina Müller, my preferred Low German author - but unfortunately she spoke High German here, otherwise the local viewers wouldn't be able to understand her. But right now I'm watching Superquark on the Italian TV-station Raiuno, and they show a film from the African savannah with lions, ostriches, antelopes and for a short while also a warthog, until the lions ate it.


Edited by Iversen on 25 June 2009 at 2:32am

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Jar-ptitsa
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 Message 989 of 3959
23 June 2009 at 10:00pm | IP Logged 
Hi,

I'm back
after 8 days without the internet :-( grrrr... But now: :-)

Iversen wrote:
I have read that slightly overweight people live longer than skinny people, so I must avoid drinkingpure vinegar because according to another article that stuff makes it difficult to built fat reserves. But ultimately it doesn't matter because a third article states that the Earth's hidden reserves of Methane are now escaping due to global warm and that's a greenhouse gas and the climate will run amok with extreme temperatures and we will probably all die. So now I'll just get an ice cream from the fridge.


LOL!! What flavour's yoru favourite ice cream? I like ALL ice cream haha! epsecially chocolate.But now I better eat vinegar because I want to lose weight.

Quote:
they show a film from the African savannah with lions, ostriches, antelopes and for a short while also a warthog, until the lions ate it.


Oh no!!! Poor warthog :-(
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Iversen
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 Message 990 of 3959
23 June 2009 at 10:06pm | IP Logged 
I prefer sorbets, - and I'm not too fond of the chocolate and mocca flavours.
Preferisco i sorbetti, - e non mi piacciono tanto i gusti cioccolata e mocca.

In questo momento gli Italiani parlano del rei inglese Riccardo Cuore-di-leone (Richard Lionheart). E stato una figura romantica, combatente famoso e probabilmente il migliore generale tra gli crociati, - ma per Inglaterra e stato un disastro perché ha lasciato il paese al suo fratello inetto Giovanni Senza-Paese (John Lackland). Almeno l'Inglaterra a ottenuto la sua prima costituzione durante questo periodo..

Ed ora si parla dell'oro e come trovar ed estrarlo. Eia Quark!

Edited by Iversen on 23 June 2009 at 11:14pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 991 of 3959
24 June 2009 at 12:02am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
But ultimately it doesn't matter because a third article states that the Earth's hidden reserves of Methane are now escaping due to global warming and that's a greenhouse gas and the climate will run amok with extreme temperatures and we will probably all die.


EN: This is quite a topic because one of my birthday presents was a DVD with the title "HOME" where I can chose the audio languages German, English or French. With my two friends we watched it in English together. The film began really harmless about the beauty of Earth's nature but in progress it presented all the human environmental sins and it ran to a climax where a huge collection of environmental dammage was enumerated, under those the escaping Methane of the Siberian permafrost regions. The key statement was that there is only 10 years time left to interrupt this vicious circle, if that doesn't happen, every remedy will come too late. Most of the facts were already known to me, but nevertheless I was deeply shocked by this video.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 24 June 2009 at 12:24am

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Jar-ptitsa
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 Message 992 of 3959
24 June 2009 at 1:28am | IP Logged 
hi Fasulye

when was your birthday? Happy Birthday!!!




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