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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 2585 of 3959
29 August 2011 at 3:50pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
GER: Es muß doch auch irgendwann etwas zurück nach Krefeld kommen - sonst wird es dort bald leer! Jesperhus ist übrigens halb Botanisches Garten (mit sehr viele und bunte Blument), halb Zoo (meistens Tropenhaus) und liegt auf einer Insel im nördlichen Jütland.


DE: Danke für diese wichtigen Erklärungen, denn ich habe den Jesperhus-Zoo nicht gefunden auf deren Website, nur den Botanischen Garten. Auch wusste ich nicht, dass er auf einer Insel in Nordjütland liegt.

Nächstes Jahr zu Ostern wird im Krefelder Zoo der Gorillagarten eröffnet. Dann wird eine junge Gruppe Gorillas dort einziehen, die aus anderen Zoos kommt. Die Gorillas im Krefelder Affenhaus sind zu alt, um noch umgesiedelt werden zu können. Daher können sie nicht im Gorillagarten wohnen, wenn er fertiggebaut ist.

Fasulye


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Iversen
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 Message 2587 of 3959
30 August 2011 at 10:12pm | IP Logged 
Hartelijk welkom terug, Kuikentje.

Right now I'm busy transferring the last parts of the magazine of my travel club to html, so I haven't studied much today. I did however discover that I had forgotten the last couple of chapters of The Master of the Rings, so instead of waiting in Lotlorien until I have time to read on, Frodo and his support team have since Sunday left the safe haven of the fairies and sailed out into the wildernmess, and now Frodo and Sam have run away from the others. What a mess. You can't turn your back to those guys for just two days without all kinds of mishaps happening.

I came to think about the origins of "hoi". Most etymological remarks don't concern its use as a greeting, but rather the expression "hoi polloi" - as for instance in Laudator Temporis Acti, which contains the following passage: "The OED gives only one definition of hoi polloi ("the majority; the masses"), but another is unfortunately widespread, at least in spoken English. According to Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage, some people use hoi polloi to mean "the snobby elite," a sense which is almost directly opposed to the term's original meaning,.."

The is interesting stuff, but doesn't point to the origins of Kuikentje's Dutch greeting. However I associated to the nautical expression "Ahoy" (which also is used in Danish as "Ohøj"), and in that excellent dispenser of knowledge The Straight Dope I finally found a decent resumé of the background for "hoi":

"The term "ahoy" is obviously nautical, although the exact origin is unknown. Some authorities think it dates back to an ancient Viking battle cry. The meaning is the same as "hail!", a salute or greeting.Eric Partridge traces it to the earlier interjection "hoy!" and the early Dutch "hui!" and perhaps the French "ohé!", all from the Middle Dutch "hoey" or "hode" and possibly derived from Old High German "huota" meaning protection (whence the word "heed")."

After reading this I crossed the room to fetch my Dutch dictionary, which states that "hoi" is an interjection from the informal spoken language - nothing about it being archaic or Early Dutch here. The Dutch Wikipedia agrees, stating that "'Hoi' als groet kan worden gebruikt als twee mensen elkaar tegenkomen, maar ook bij afscheid." So one possible translation of "hoi" into Platt and into Southern Jutish is apparently "moin". Google gives a whopping 47.000.000 hits (even after eliminating "hoi pollon" and the Vietnamese town "Hoi An").

Hoi

Edited by Iversen on 30 August 2011 at 10:21pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2588 of 3959
31 August 2011 at 10:16am | IP Logged 
I wrote the message below for Zwlth's thread "Polyliteracy as advanced language study", but then I realized that he might see any message from me as a provocation, so to avoid more discussion about the definition of the word 'polyliteracy' I moved it to my language log - where it also fits nicely in because it does say something about my study plan:


Zwlth wrote:

To me, as a polyglot, it is the idea of single sequential focus at a time that is counterintuitive. Is there really no one else who feels the same way?


Yes there is - believe it or not, but this time I agree with everything you say!

I also balk at the idea of doing languages sequentially with one language in one week and then the next week reserved for another language. Of course I'll focus on the local language if I'm somewhere abroad, partly because I want to use the opportunity to its fullest, but also because I can't carry my private library around.

At home my preferred working situation consists of extensive and intensive activities. The intensive activities include studying and copying short texts in my target languages, transferring unknown words to wordlists or doing them directly from dictionaries, making grammar synopses, listening intently to languages where I still have to concentrate et cetera. And I try to get through all my languages at least every week with these activities.

Extensive activites comprise watching TV (including internet TV in the languages which I understand reasonably well and reading books and articles in different languages. However the serial model sneaks back here because it takes time to read a book, whether it is 'great' or not. I have more or less lost interest in fiction which unfortunately makes it more difficult to get hold of books I actually would like to read, but luckily there are many classic texts on the internet, and I do manage to carry a limited amount of books back home from my travels. But most of my 'paper reading' nowadays consists of 'small' books (in the physical sense), magazines and printouts.      

So a typical pattern for my extensive activities at any given time would be that I am reading one (or max. two) bigger books online or on paper, I have something shorter in my briefcase (magazines are ideal because it is stop-go reading) and besides I read short texts and/or listen to TV or podcasts in anywhere from 2,3 to 6,7 languages on a typical day. And most evenings I find time to do intensive activites in 2-3 languages.

One unfortunate consequence of this kind of agenda is that the physical size of books does have something to say, and that spending several weeks on single book isn't feasible any more. In that sense I'm becoming as harassed and superficial as anybody else - just in more languages.

Edited by Iversen on 03 September 2011 at 1:59am

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Iversen
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 Message 2590 of 3959
02 September 2011 at 11:28pm | IP Logged 
IT: Ho ancora alcune riviste Italiane dal mio ultimo viaggio laggiù, e una di loro si chiama "BBC History". Probabilmente esiste anche nell'inglese, ma il contenuto di questa edizione è senz'altro scritto per gli Italiani (e me). Si discuta il ruolo del treno nella historia, e per me come viaggiatore 'trenistico' il più interessante di questi articoli si riferisce allo sviluppo dei treni ad alta velocità in Italia. Sono stato in molti tipi di treni durante i miei viaggi (compresi nove viaggi di Interrail), ma i treni di lusso erano troppo costosi, e perciò ho sono normalmente viaggiato coi treni a costo basso o mediano, ma una volta ho viaggiato nel treno 'Pendolino', uno dei primi a inchinarsi nelle curve per opporsi alla forza centrifuga. Ed ora si parla di treni che si muovano a più di 400 km/h. Ma visto dal mio punto di vista tutto questo e fatto in vano se le stazioni sono sporcate da pubblicità strepitosa - mettere schermi enormi con pubblicità e musica alta è come cacare su una torta di crema. C'è anche un articolo sulla contessa Matilde di Canossa. I venerabili lettori dei 'grandi libri' la cognoscono ovviamente dal spettacolo "Enrico IV" di Pirandello, che tratta di un episodio della lotta tra il papa e il imperatore tedesco-romano Enrico IV.

My thing-to-read-in-the-bus-back-from-my-workplace has since I finished the first third of The Lord of the Rings been an Italian magazine named BBC History - probably there is an English edition too, but the articles of this one are very much directed towards Italian readers. Half of this issue is taken up by articles about trains, and for me the most interesting article was the one about fast trains because it spans the time where I personally have been using the Italian railways - although mostly in slower and cheaper trains (and we hatessss the screaming marketing screens at some railway stations like the one at Trento - these days the poor Trentinos have to be either deaf or tone deaf or both to use their railway station). The other half of the magazine is about sundry other themes, like the memorable countess Mathilda of Canossa which ye readers of great books will know from Pirandello's play "Enrico IV" (after the emperor of the holy Roman Empire Enrico/Heinrich IV who had to go barefoot to Canossa to ask apology from the pope, who at that time was Mathilda's guest at the castle of Canossa). There is also an article about the (unused) 'Führerbunker' of Mussolini, the Italian constitution and the original tea party at Boston.


Edited by Iversen on 03 September 2011 at 1:23pm

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Sprachprofi
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 Message 2591 of 3959
03 September 2011 at 12:43am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
after the emperor of the holy Roman Empire Enrico/Heinrich IV who had to
go barefoot to Canossa to ask apology from the pope, who at that time was Mathilda's
guest at the castle of Canossa


Auf Deutsch wird "Gang nach Canossa" oder "er muss nach Canossa gehen" immer noch als
geflügeltes Wort benutzt, vor allem in den Zeitungen. Es bedeutet, dass jemand ganz
erniedrigt um etwas bitten muss... wie der Kaiser, der drei Tage lang in Sack und Asche
barfuß im Schnee von Canossa stand.
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Iversen
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 Message 2592 of 3959
04 September 2011 at 10:45am | IP Logged 
POR: O meu grande livro para a próxima semana ou algo assim torna-se "Os Lusíades" de Luis de Camões (1524-1580) - o épico nacional português que é tambem uma espécie de história em verso. Comprei-a em Lisboa há alguns anos atrás, mas é um pouco problemático que é a versão do Porto Editora, que é muito relutante em relação ás notas históricas - será difícil de entende-lo sem ler tambem algo sobre a história de Portugal. Até agora eu li todas as prefácios - que preenchem 66 páginas (com notas)- e agora estou pronto para me jogar sobre o texto em si, que linguisticamente não parece muito difícil (eu duvido que seja o texto original de Camões). Aliás, tenho visto o monumento de Camões em Macãu no ano 1994 - ele viajou ao redor da Oriente uma grande parte de sua vida.

My 'big book' for the next week or so will be the national epos of Portugal, "Os Lusíades" by Luis de Camões, which describes the history of Portugal in verse (with special emphasis on the discovery of the searoute to India). I bought my version of it in Lisboa a couple of years ago, and I have had it standing unused on my shelf since then. But there is no reason to postpone it - except a lamentable lack of historical references that could put Camões' flowery descriptions into a truly historical framework. I have so far only read the 66 pages of forewords with notes, and they treat it as a piece of literature although also with some notes about the language. But I have of course peeked ahead and the text is suspiciously easy to read - I had expected something at the level of la Divina Commedia, but I can actually read these Lusíades without a dictionary - which makes me wonder: is this really the original text by Camões? A few comparisons with the versions on the internet should clear up that question.

DU: Ik heb voortgezet mijn studien van het Vaticaanse gids voor Roma dat ik heb gekocht in juli, met speciale nadruk op het woordgevolge in bijzinnen - dat is: in welke volgorde worden finite en infinite werkwoorden gebruikt? Daarnaast leer ik natuurlijk een heleboel woorden, hoewel het zelden gebeurt dat ik moet woorden in mijn woordenboeken verslaan.

I have continued my studies of Dutch word order, especially in subordinate phrases, using the Dutch guide to Rome which I bought in the Vatican Museum in July. I also learn something about Rome and some Dutch vocabulary, although I rarely have to look words up - the problem for me is more which seemingly plausible words I have to avoid when writing or thinking in Dutch because they really aren't Dutch words, but either Platt or German.

GR: Χθες το βράδυ σπούδασα ένα κείμενο σχετικά τη χρήση τών Ελληνικών παιδιών του διαδικτύου - το οποίο είναι χαμηλότερο από ό, τι ισχύει για τα άλλα παιδιά της Ευρώπης (και η οικονομική κρίση μαλλόν μπορεί να επανορθώσει αυτή την κατάσταση). Δηλαδή:αντέγραψα το κείμενο, χτύπησε λέξεις και δημιούργησε ένα γλωσσάρι που ήθελα να επαναλάβω σήμερα ή αύριο. Γιατί οι Έλληνες, επίσης, συνεχίσουν να γράφουν τον Διαδίκτυο με ένα κεφαλαίο γράμμα;;

Yesterday evening I also found time to study an old printout about the use of the internet in Greece. Apparently Greek children use it less than their counterparts in other European countries (and the current economical crisis can't be a help to remedy that situation). But one thing struck me: why do the Greek write the internet with a capital letter, like if it had been a company name? Methinks we are beyond that stage.

BA I: Aku berhasil bahkan untuk studi teks dari buku panduan saya ke Singapura - teks Bahasa Indonesia sekitar Little India. Dan ada beberapa kata dilupakan setelah kekeringan Bahasa baru-baru - tetapi secara bertahap saya kembali ke rutinitas dan mengingat kata-kata lebih dan lebih.

I even found time to refresh a text about Little India in my Bahasa Indonesian guide to Singapore. I have spent relatively little time on this language the last month or so, and that meant that I initially had forgotten a lot of words. I have a parallel version in English so I could easily refresh my memory there, but I prefer using my dictionary because it is more precise and I also get the wordroots - a thing that is extremely important in this language. After a while my memory returned and I could again understand the text directly from the page. To my defence it should be said that this precise text isn't easy at all - a bilingual example (using the offical translation plus my own hyperliteral version):

Ditegaskan dengan hiruk pikuknya suara klakson mobil, dering bel sepeda dan suara obrolan penghuninya yang bernada tinggi
Punctuated by a cacophony of car horns, bicycle belles and the staccato chatter of its residents
*Made-distinct with clamor-clamorThe sound horn car, ring bell bicycle and sound chatter inhabitantsThe which have-edge high

serta aroma tajam dari rempah-rempah serta bunga-bunga yang ada
as well as the pungent aroma of spices and flowers,
*as-well-as smell sharp from spice-spice as-well-as flower-flower which be

pemandangan, bau dan suara Little India benar-benar istimewa.
the sights, smells and sounds of Little India are indeed distinctive.
*sight(s), smell(s) and sound(s) Little India very-very special.

If I had participated in a normal language course I would probably have been ordered to study something simpler. But it is typical for authors of this kind of inebriated reviews to go totally overboard in a frenzy of exuberant flowery word equilibrism, and it is an entertaining style once you have learnt the terminology. Much more so than one of those standard silly dialogues which abound in ordinary textbooks.


Edited by Iversen on 05 September 2011 at 9:54am



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