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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 2105 of 3959
16 October 2010 at 9:54pm | IP Logged 
I have just made a comment in a thread about machine translation (and no, I don't mean the one about language families that somehow got off-topic). This reminded me about a bilingual text I once made using Goggle Translate on an Icelandic text about medieval French kings. I translated into Danish, but to accomodate those that might not know Danish I'll translate the translations into English. And add my own comments.

.... fyrri konu hans, Ísabellu af Aragóniu
.... hans første kone, Isabella af Aragonit.
.... his wife, Isabella of Aragonite.   
Hehe, at least it didn't say Kryptonite. It should of course be the kingdom Aragon.

Filippus og Játvarður I heilsast med virktum
Philip og Edward første velfærd effektivt.
Philip and Edward first welfare effectively.
Correct translation: Philip and Edward I greated each other 'with open arms'.
No welfare here and nothing about being efficient. Goggle probably confounded the verb "heilsa" (greet) with the noun "heilsa" (health, wellbeing). Btw. the good vibes between the two kings didn't last for long.

.. en urðu allir skammlifir
... men urðu enhver ulykke
... but "urðu" everybody accident
Correct hyperliteral translation: but [they] were all shortlived
It is strange that "urðu" wasn't translated, - it is simply a past form of a common verb that means 'become' ("werden" in German). Actually the persons referenced did not die through accidents.

Margrét og Blanka voru fundnar sekar og varpað í dýflissu en Jóhanna sýknuð,
Margaret og Blanka blev fundet skyldig og kastet i fængsel, men Brian sýknuð
Margaret and Blanka were found guilty and thrown into gaol, but Brian 'syknuð'.
'Syknuð' means 'become ill', and I have no inkling of an idea about the reasons for the translation of 'Johanna' as 'Brian'

... konur áttu ekki erfðarétt samkvæmt frönskum lögum.
... kvinder havde ingen arv henhold til lovgivningen i pommes frites.
.. women had no right to inherit [the throne] according to the laws in french fries.
Correct Danish translation: kvinder havde ingen arveret i henhold til (de) franske love
In English: women had no claim to the throne according to (the) French laws.


By now I have outgrown the use of Google Translate for Icelandic texts, and being a minor language the quality of translations from Icelandic may also be questionable ... but I would probably not have committed the errors above even in the early stages of my Icelandic studies. They are typical machine translation blunders, and therefore also both more entertaining and easier to spot than the errors committed by human transators.


Edited by Iversen on 20 October 2010 at 11:10pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2106 of 3959
20 October 2010 at 12:36am | IP Logged 
I have been occupied with other things than languages over the weekend and yesterday, but today I finally had the oppurtunity to spend some time on language learning.

GR: Στην πραγματικότητα άρχισε σήμερα το πρωί όταν ξύπνησα μετά από μια μακρά όνειρο στα ελληνικά - είναι ίσως η πρώτη φορά που συμβαίνει αυτό. Αλλά όταν πήρα το σπίτι από τη δουλειά, αποφάσισα να περάσουν αρκετές ώρες για την ελληνική μου, που θα πρέπει να δοκιμαστεί για μια μόνο-γλώσσα ταξίδι την επόμενη χρονιά. Επανέλαβα ένα τμήμα οδηγό μου στην Αθήνα και έγραψε ένα γλωσσάριο με περίπου 180 λέξεις.

FR: Puis j'ai eu l'idée de faire un nouveau décompte de mon vocabulaire passif en français. Il fait environ un an et demi depuis le dernier décompte et à l'époque je n'ai fait qu'un seul comptage (avec un résultat pas trop impréssionant). Cette fois j'ai conté 7 pages dans mon dictionnaire de Gyldendal avec 45.000 lemmes, et mon estimat a atteint 28.200 mots dont 13% combinaisons de deux-trois mots - et j'ai évidemment omis les expressions non-lexicales. Cette exercise me donne non seulement une idée de la taille de mon vocabulaire français, mais j'effectue aussi une répétition très efficace des mots que je connais, mais n'ai pas vu depuis longtemps.

SW: Och naturligtvis har jag också sett tv, bland annat ett svenskt program om sjukdom på resor (en mycket passande ämne för en frekvent resenär!), och även med flera intervjuer på spanska. Men medan jag satt och läste grekiska, lyssnade jag bara på musik av Ravel och Debussy. Det varit måhända mer logiskt att lyssna på Theodorakis - men jag har inte mycket grekisk musik på band.

--

I spent the first part of the evening watching Swedish TV, and afterwards I reread some passages of my 'Hellophone' guide to Athens and did 180 words worth of wordlists. One reason for choosing Greek was that I woke up this morning after a long dream (mostly) in that language - which as far as remember is the first time this has happened. Afterwards I made a word count using a French-Danish dictionary with approx. 45.000 ords (excluding expressions, but probably including wordlike short word combinations). The calculations gave an estimated number of 28.200 words or wordlike combinations (like "peine capitale" and "faucon pélérin").

Friday I told about my latest Balkan trip at a meeting in my travel club, and one of the pictures I showed was the one below. I would dearly like my personal language list to look something like this one - I wonder how many emplyees that little translation bureau in Drobeta-Turnu Severin in Romania need to cover all those languages.



Edited by Iversen on 20 October 2010 at 11:09pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2107 of 3959
20 October 2010 at 11:28pm | IP Logged 
I have had a busy day at my job, checking names in some spreadsheets while listening to music, and I came home at 10 pm. - so there won't be much time for language learning.

IT: ...ma non posso omettere un riferimento alla musica che ho sentito questa sera: variazioni sul Carneval di Venezia eseguite da violino, flauto, tromba e tuba. Questa musica si chiama (DA) "Min hat den har tre buler" på dansk, (SP) aunque no tenga nada que ver col sombrero de tres picos de de Falla. (GER) Aber auf deutsch heißt dieses unsterblichen Meisterwerk tatsächlich auch "Mein Hut der hat drei Ecken", fast wie auf Dänisch. Gut mit ein Bißchen Solidarität! (IT): E prego, non dimentica che esiste nel mondo reale un vero carnevale di Venezia ... fu interrotto in 1797 dopo l'occupazione francese, e fu ripreso solo nell'anno 1979, dopo quasi due secoli.

Edited by Iversen on 21 October 2010 at 12:11am

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Iversen
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 Message 2108 of 3959
22 October 2010 at 12:49am | IP Logged 
SP: He pasado algo tiempo esta noche con mis estudios de bahasa y de ruso, pero el idioma mas importante hoy fue el español. Por ejemplo he visto las noticias de TVE, y mas tarde (entre las 23.00 y las 24.00) vi un excelente programa llamado "Españoles en el Mundo". Esta vez hemos visitado españoles en Atenas (con una excursión a la Isla Hidra por Pireo), y me gusta mucho esos programas porque se cammina lentamente por las calles visitando lugares de interés como museos, ruinas, mercados e otros lugares de interés cultural - los mismos que yo también puedo visitar cuando estoy en una ciudad. Por ejemplo hemos visitado el nuevo museo de Parthenon, el qual no era yà abierto quando yo visité Atenas en 2007.

GR: Από το 2007, όταν επισκέφτηκα την Αθήνα, την Πάτρα, τους Δελφούς και άλλους χώρους, έχω μάθει ένα κομμάτι της ελληνικής γλώσσας, καθώς και κατά την τέταρτη ημέρα της τελευταία επίσκεψή μου (στην Θεσσαλονίκη, Φλώρινα και Καστοριάς) ήμουν σχεδόν έτοιμος να μιλήσω την γλώσσα. Την επόμενη φορά θα προσπαθήσω να κρατήσω να μιλήσω ελληνικά.

BA (M): Kajian saya dalam Bahasa bergerak perlahan-lahan maju..

I have spent time on Bahasa and Russian this evening, but first and foremost on Spanish. I have watched the news on TVE, and later a full hour about Spaniards living in Athens (with a short detour to the island Idra, which I also once visited on a daytour). I like this series because we not only visit people at home, but they also show us important places in their chosen town by walking throught the streets. For instance we visited the new Parthenon Museum, which wasn't yet open when I visited Greece in 2007. At that time I didn't speak Greek and only knew the alphabet and a few words. At my recent visit to Northern Greece I got to the point where I almost was ready to speak the language at the fourth day, but then I had to followe my travel plan and continue into Albania. Next time I will definitely want to try keeping strictly to Greek from the beginning.   

By the way. my sister and mother have just returned from a trip to Mallorca, and they were quite happy about the place - even though they don't speak the local languages. Maybe I'll also go there one day to see what all the fuss is about.


Edited by Iversen on 22 October 2010 at 1:04am

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Iversen
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 Message 2109 of 3959
22 October 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged 
I'm standing at a hotel computer right now, so I'll be brief. But I have been spending at least two hours reading my old Teach Yyourself Irish. Each time I touch this language I have the feeling that I have to start from scratch again, but I get into the mood faster and faster - which may be a modest claim, but it is neverthesless the sign of some kind of progress.

I have brought a Russian grammar, and that will be my main occupation the rest of this evening.

Edited by Iversen on 27 October 2010 at 1:16pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2110 of 3959
25 October 2010 at 12:14am | IP Logged 
DA (Synnejysk): MOIN! A æ tebach fra en bette besøch i Synnejylland, og i goor hår a besøch Synneborg Slot i Synneborg, hvor folk viist der husflid frem i æ riddersal og æ tilstøend gemahker. Der hår a hørt en masse flot dialekt, og ochså nowe når a hår kjørt mæ æ bus på Als. Men skrewen synnejysk ser man inte møw af, - undtawn et butiksskilt i Synneborg: "E dønsk". Hvis man vil se nowe å æ sproch skrewen af folk fra æ egn, så er den bæjst kild æ blaj fra æ Synnejysk forening "tæ bevarls af æ sproch å kultue" - og det en ren fornøvels at læs det.

DA (kedeligt normaldansk) Jeg er tilbage fra et lidet besøg i Sønderjylland, og i går har jeg besøgt Sønderborg slot i Sønderborg, hvor folk viste deres husflid frem i riddersalen og de tilstødende gemakker. Der har jeg hørt en masse flot dialekt, og også hørt noget når jeg har kørt med bus på Als. Men skrevet sønderjysk ser man ikke meget af - undtagen en butiksskilt i Sønderborg: "Dansk'en". Hvis man vil se noget på sproget, skrevet af folk fra egnen, så er den bedste kilde bladet fra den Sønderjydske Forening "til bevarelse af sproget og kulturen" - og det er en ren fornøjelse at læse det.

DU: Ik heb hier vanavond de situatie op de Nederlandse Caribische eilanden onderzocht. Ik ben een lid van een reisvereniging waar we registers bijhouden over leden z'n landen en gebieden. Maar het 10 Oktober van dit jaar gebeurde het dat Curaçao en Sint Maarten een meer onafhankelijke positie (zoals Aruba) hebben bereikt, terwijl de overige eilanden - Bonaire, Saba en Sint Eustatius ('Statia') - voortaan worden bekend als de Caribische Nederland. En dus was het handig dat ik kon lezen over dit thema in het Nederlands, omdat in het Deense daarover zeer weinig geschreven is.

IC: Og ennfremur, hlustaði ég að minnsta kosti eina klukkustund útvarp frá Íslandi. Ólíkt sjónvarp, getur þú heyrið nánast allar útvarp-útsendingar í gegnum Internetið.


I have spent the weekend in Southern Jutland, and I have heard a fair amount of the local dialect "synnejysk" (Southern Jutish) - not least at SØnderborg Slot ('Southernburgh castle') where local people had been invited to show their private handicraft. I also visited Haderslev and Åbenrå. The whole area was under German rule from 1864 to 1920, and this may have helped to give people there the pride that has made some of them keep their dialect. But it is rarely written, except in the members' magazine of the "Southern Jutes' Association".

After I came home I have had to study the situation at the Dutch Caribbean Island, where two Islands (Curaçao and Sint Maartens) have got the same status as Arube, namely their own parliament and own local government. The remaining Islands form a loose cooperation called "The Caribbean Netherlands (Dutch: Caribisch Nederland). According to the English version of Wikipedia they forthwith are "Caribbean islands that hold the status of 'public bodies' (Dutch: openbare lichamen), informally known as "special municipalities" (Dutch: bijzondere gemeenten), of the Netherlands.". However I also found some semiofficial information in Dutch. And the reason that I have studied these things is that I'm a member of a travel club where we keep track of the countries and territories that our members visit - and now we also have to keep track of Curaçao and Sint Maartens separately.

And finally I have been listening to Icelandic radio at RUV. Most TV programs - apart from the news and the weather - are not put on the internet, but most radio programs are.


Edited by Iversen on 27 October 2010 at 1:26pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 2111 of 3959
25 October 2010 at 9:16am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DA (Synnejysk): MOIN! A æ tebach fra en bette besøch i Synnejylland, og i goor hår a besøch Synneborg Slot i Synneborg, hvor folk viist der husflid frem i æ riddersal og æ tilstøend gemahker. Der hår a hørt en masse flot dialekt, og ochså nowe når a hår kjørt må æ bus på Als. Men skrewen synnejysk ser man inte møw af, - undtawn et butiksskilt i Synneborg: "E dønsk". Hvis man vil se nowe å æ sproch skrewen af folk fra æ egn, så er den bæjst kild æ blaj fra æ Synnejysk forening "tæ bevarls af æ sproch å kultue" - og det en ren fornøvels at læs det.

DA (kedeligt normaldansk) Jeg er tilbage fra et lidet besøg i Sønderjylland, og i går har jeg besøgt Sønderborg slot i Sønderborg, hvor folk viste deres husflid frem i riddersalen og de tilstødende gemakker. Der har jeg hørt en masse flot dialekt, og også hørt noget når jeg har kørt med bus på Als. Men skrevet sønderjysk ser man ikke meget af - undtagen en butiksskilt i Sønderborg: "Dansk'en". Hvis man vil se noget på sproget, skrevet af folk fra egnen, så er den bedste kilde bladet fra den Sønderjydske Forening "til bevarelse af sproget og kulturen" - og det er en ren fornøjelse at læse det.


DK: Det her er interessant at laese for mig, fordi min laerer kommer fra Sönderborg. Han taler lidt sönderjysk.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 25 October 2010 at 3:45pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2112 of 3959
27 October 2010 at 1:22pm | IP Logged 
I have been working hard at my job since last week, and with one excursion to Southern Jutland and chores for my travel club I have had little time to study language and/or write here. Hopefully things will even out over the weekend. But as I already have indicated I did study during my trip Southwards - in trains, busses and on my room. I made wordlists out of the examples of verbs constructions with added infinitives in my Russian grammar, and I have also been reading my TY Irish and the Lonely P guide to Indonesian that hasn't got those pesky pronunciation directives (which as I have explained earlier are totally out of place in both Bahasas). This evening I expect to be able to spend several hours on my studies.


Edited by Iversen on 27 October 2010 at 11:58pm



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