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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2953 of 3959
16 June 2012 at 11:13am | IP Logged 
RU: Это, возможно, немного неожиданно, но здесь, в Каркассон, у меня больше энергии, чтобы читать русскую, чем на родине - возможно, потому что у меня много других языков на выбор. Я просто был в старом городе, где я купил книжку с картинками на русском языке - как различные от GEO.

CAT: També vaig comprar l'edició en català,i a més es podria obtenir el llibre en francès, polonès, rus, espanyol, alemany i italià -, però no en occità. En realitat, gairebé no hi ha rastre d'aquest idioma, a excepció d'unes poques mostres de carrer bilingües.

EN: Because I have been using some micro dictionaries for a few days I have come to think about a strange fact about vocabulary: even a dictionary with a claimed 10-15.000 words often leaves you blank when you look things up from quite ordinary texts. And even with 2-3 times as many words in your dictionary you will often look things up in vain. Sometimes you will be able to find a word through derivations or from the context, but it does add to the mystery surrounding the notion of vocabulary size.

The point is: if 10-15.000 words (or 30.000 for that matter) aren't enough for your dictionary, are they then enough for you?

Edited by Iversen on 18 June 2012 at 3:10am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 2954 of 3959
18 June 2012 at 3:09am | IP Logged 
Back home again.

Yesterday evening I wanted to review my Greek wordlists and noticed that I found it boring to read them through. It went much better when I wrote the Greeek words down (without tranlsations to speed up the process). Because I as usual have used two colours it was possible to do this without looking too much at the translations, and it seems to have worked - I could remember almost all the words. I have normally just laid my wordlists away after the first repetition, but ti migth be worth going through some of them again, but apparently it is necessary to write the words. I actually fell asleep when I just read the lists through because it demanded so much more forced concentration.

In the airplane home I read my Catalan picture book about Carcassonne, and it was actually better than expected. I'll do some studies of the special vocabulary used for this kind of subjects, but I didn't have real problems reading the stuff.

The bilingual street names in the Midi are puzzling to say the least. The point is that if it just was a question of a language shift then the new names in standard French would be translations of the old names, but no, the names are totally different. Mostly the new names commemmorates some famous (or not so famous) person, maybe a military person or administrative representative for the central powers in Paris, but even this isn't a rule. It seems to me that somebody simply at some point decided to crush any feeling of local autonomy in the South by giving all their streets new names. And at least in the historical centres the local authorities showed a mild degree of discontent by quoting the old names in Occitan alongside with the new ones in French. But they wouldn't dream of speaking the real thing, and most people don't even have the typical Southern pronunciation.


Edited by Iversen on 19 June 2012 at 3:28pm

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2955 of 3959
24 June 2012 at 11:54pm | IP Logged 
It is almost a week since I last added to my log file, but I have been busy organizing my travel photos, writing a travelogue and doing other irrelevant tasks, and during the weekend my sister was present all three days which makes it almost impossible to find time for studies - and I also painted the window frames of all windows in my mothers house as her birthday present.

ESP: Tiel esence mi nur trovis tempon por labori en mia vortprovizo en esperanto por unu horo (sabato de 23.00). Mi pensis kaj ripensis la tutan aferon, sed ankaŭ bezonas aŭskulti kaj paroli multe per liveri konvinkan prezenton tie.

GER: Wärhend meiner Familienbesuche sehe ich meistens ganz viel deutsches Fernsehen, weil meine Mutter Astra hat - aber etwas funktioniert seit einiger er Zeit nicht, so nur vielleicht ein Drittel von seiner Astra-Programme gut sind, etwa ein Drittel davon total unerreichbar sind und die Rest wie moderne Kunst aussehen, nur schlimmer und mit Bewegung.

FR: Pourtant j'ai pu regarder la télévision par câble chez elle et à la maison. Juste maintenant je vois un programme en français illustrant l'histoire de Tintin dans le Pérou (sur 'History Channel' qui normalement est anglophone), et dans un moment des Incas suvivants vont brûler lui et ses deux compagnons - mais Tintin prétend d'implorer le soleil à s'occulter afin que le prêtre suprême ne puisse pas allumer les bûchers avec son 'miroir' magique. Apparemment les incas ne connaissaient pas les heures précises des éclipses - si cela eût été des Mayas le pauvre Tintin êut eu des problèmes! D'ailleurs le programme a montré une cérémonie moderne avec des vrais descendants authentiques des Incas qui parlaient leur language indigène (quechua?), ce qui me rappelle un programme antérieur où on a laissé un Maya contemporain lire à haute voix un extrait du Popol Vuh, l'histoire de la création selon les Mayas, mais écrite avec des lettres latines.


Edited by Iversen on 26 June 2012 at 5:27pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2956 of 3959
27 June 2012 at 2:39pm | IP Logged 
The process of putting a certain measure of order into my photos and other memorabilia from my recent 17-day expedition to Europe is far from over, but at least I can now introduce other activities into my daily schedule at home - such as language learning. Yesterday I drew map of the areas I had visited in 20 cities and this took most of the evening. But finally ...

RU: Прошлой ночью мне удалось прочитать некоторые статьи в моей русской версии журнала GEO, и я изучил статью о летучих мышах интенсивно.

BA I: Kemudian menemukan panduan saya ke Singapura dalam bahasa Indonesia dan Inggris, yang saya belum mempelajari lama dan di sini saya mempelajari beberapa artikel pendek tentang museum-museum di kota. Lalu aku membuat daftar-daftar kata-kata. Dua hari lalu, saya membaca sekali lagi teks saya tentang konstelasi Orion di rumah bis dari kantor, dan kemarin saya membaca panduan Wombat (19 halaman di cetak) ke tata bahasa Irlandia.

Two days ago I reread Wombat's quick little guide to the Irish grammar in the bus back home from work. Yesterday I reread my bilingual text in Indonesian about the constellation Orion. And then yesterday evening I finally got time to sit down and do some real studying, and I first read some articles in my Russian version of GEO extensively, then I worked my way through a single article about bats in Bolivia. Afterwards I localized my guides in Indonesian and English to Singapore and studied a couple of articles about museums there*, followed by some wordlist activity. After that I didn't feel like switching on my computer to report about those activities, but with the last flicker of energy I manage to watch a program in English about the newly found Denisova man. Actually the paleontologists only have found the tip of the finger of a wee girl and a few huge teeth from adult Denisovians so the identification as a separate species rests entirely on DNA studies. Which also have shown that the only possible traces of DNA from Homo Denisova are found in people belonging to Homo Sapiens from New Guinea and Melanesia and one tribe in the Philippines..

* yes, I have also noticed that this sentence is ambiguous, but I don't want to correct it.

"Ni samlaid bása, ar Medb, acht m'athair i n-ardrigi hErenn .i. Eocho Feidlech mac Find meic Findomain meic Findeoin meic Findguni meic Rogein Rúaid meic Rigéoin meic Blathachta meic Beothechta meic Enna Agnig meic Oengusa Turbig."

A genealogy composed in a fairy language as a complement to one of Tolkien's works? No, just a short snippet of a long poem in Old Irish about a cattle thieves' raid, and found in an unexpected place: lernu.org, which normally is the reserved abode for all things Esperanto.


Edited by Iversen on 27 June 2012 at 3:29pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2957 of 3959
28 June 2012 at 10:42am | IP Logged 
Yesterday I did wordlists in several languages, and sometimes with a twist or two:

ESP: Ekzemple, en esperanto. Tie mi trovus vortojn kiuj povus esti taŭga por eksplikado de la koncepto 'vortareto' kaj faris vortotrezoron por paroli pri tiu temo - tio estas, vortoj kiuj signifas etapojn en argumentado, kolumnojn (kaj trikolumnajn vortaretojn!), vortojn traktanta kun komputiloj, kabloj, projekciiloj, skribtabuloj kaj kreto kaj demandoj de la publiko. Se oni devas unue trovi tiajn vortojn en la dana-esperanto vortaro, oni bezonas multan tempon ĉar ili estas lokitaj individue. Tial mi starigis la unuan kunsidon kaj poste mi kopiis la vortojn al mia normala vortprovizo aranĝo kun tri kolumnoj (ESP DA ESP). Interŝanĝe mi ne faris ripetan sekcion dekstren sur papero, ĉar mi jam (re)vidis la vortojn kiam mi trovis ilin en la vortaron.

BA I: Untuk Bahasa Indonesia saya telah melakukan sesuatu yang lain. Aku mengambil daftar tua, di mana saya telah menyelesaikan tiga kolom yang kiri (bahasa-bahasa Indonesia, Denmark, Indonesia), tapi tidak membuat pengulang kolom ganda di sebelah kanan di atas kertas. Saya menyalin semua kata asing ke dalam selembar kertas (bahasa Indonesia). Dan kemudian aku membuat pengulangan biasa saya dengan dua kolom (Indonesia, Denmark). Waktu yang saya menggunukan untuk salinan pertama kata-kata bahasa Indonesia, tapi aku akan menghemat waktu ini penulisan dalam tata letaknya yang normal.

When I did my wordlists in Esperanto I wanted some expressions which might become useful for a lecture about wordlists: words for steps in an argumentation, column, computer, cable, projector etc. So first I made such a list (partly with known words), and afterwards I transferred them to my usual three-column format. The point is of course that it would take time and break my concentration if I first had to choose them and then look them up in a thick Danish-Esperanto dictionary.

I do those look-ups when I my source is the list of unknown words in a concrete text, but there I don't have to choose the words first and I already know the meaning of many words - I just need confirmation. But having made a preparatory list means that I could dispense with the normal repetition columns. If I want to repeat later I can just note the foreign words down while rereading the translations - however I have come to the conclusion that it is irrelevant and a waste of time to do such a delayed repeat without at least writing the foreign words down. Just reading them makes me restless and bored, which is a normal reaction and probably the main reason for the low popularity of the primitive wordlists found in standard text books. Simply writing things down makes all the difference.

A relevant case actually occurred just minutes later when I found an old Indonesian wordlist whose repetition columns I somehow had 'forgotten' to fill out. If I had done my repetition round long after the original triple columns I would have been in a situation where I just as well could have started a totally new wordlist - the normal advice is to do it one day later, but the real criterion is that you have to remember that you actually did the first round and hopefully also some of your 'memory hooks' from that session. To compensate for this inexplicable and lamentable case of procrastination I first made a list of all the Indonesian words with one eye on the Danish translations - and only after that phase (i.e. after some 60 words) was it worth filling out the canonical repetition columns.

Of course I also did some reading/studying/copying, namely ..

RU: Я прочитал статью в Википедии на Денисовском человека - - хотя не узнал что-то новое об этой новой человеческого вида.

FR: Et dans mon sac pour la lecture dans l'autobus-du-boulot-vers-mon-foyer j'ai mis "Le monde des sciences", un journal français de science populaire lié au "New Scientist"

Edited by Iversen on 28 June 2012 at 11:03am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2958 of 3959
29 June 2012 at 10:30am | IP Logged 
IT: Oggi ho aperto Google e scoprí che sta ancora settato a Italiano da ieri. Beh, potrebbe essere peggio. Ho deciso di ritenere finora l'Italiano come lingue di base. Ma volevo infatti solo sapere come si dice 'hit' in Italiano.

RU: Это довольно долго, так как я в последний раз сделали зеленый лист бумаги с грамматикой, но вчера вечером я составил список предлогах и падежах, которые они управляют на русском языке - у меня есть регулярно проблемы с запоминанием их, кроме того, что большинство из них, которых я не помню, управляет родительном падеже. Может быть, что я буду сделать такой же список исландского языка, где ситуация - не менее сложна.

После этого я изучал статьи о большеухой лисицы от GEO.

RU: poi am furnizat verbele româneşti cu literă iniţială h- în dicţionarul meu Teora cu semne de culoare care indică dacă sunt folosite cu infix sau nu. Aşa cum am descris mai devreme, am doar această informaţie în vechiul dicţionar meu de la Academia Română



Edited by Iversen on 02 July 2012 at 11:14am

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2959 of 3959
01 July 2012 at 10:27am | IP Logged 
I spent a busy language learning day yesterday from around noon to 2 o'clock in the night. Instead of mentioning all the things I did I'll just mention two: as I wrote I had a feeling that my 'accuracy of fire' regarding Russian prepositions had dropped because I mostly read in the language instead of speaking and writing it. In itself this is something I should so something about, but for the moment I have just chosen to do my intensive Russian studies with a notestand full of 'green sheets' plus a Russian grammar and a dictionary within reach.

To train my Esperanto listening skills I have returned to Radio Verda (after a long pause). The two 'hosts' speak extremely slowly and clearly, and I remember from Copenhagen last year that fluent (and especially the few native) speakers have a much more hurried cadence to their Esperanto - but the topics of Radio Verde are generally quite interesting. Exemple en la programo RV189 (2012.03.11) sinjoro Arono parolas pri la nova Googla sistemo de ektraduko de Esperanto.

And thirdly: I have reawakened my studies of Irish, which have been suspended since May because of my travelling. I use a text about Galway as my chief study object, and even though there still are many words to look up I somehow feel that I get the sense more easily now than I did in May - which is rather strange.

I'll stop here and get some earphones on - the vile thing in the neigbouring flat has risen from Hell so I need something to drown out the noise. And it can't be language because the point from now on is NOT to listen attentively, but just forget that I have ears.



Edited by Iversen on 03 July 2012 at 2:00pm

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newyorkeric
Diglot
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Singapore
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 Message 2960 of 3959
03 July 2012 at 3:50am | IP Logged 
Neighbors - the bane of my existence. I dream of moving out of flats forever and into a proper house. I've started using a noise machine which helps some.


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