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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1849 of 3959
25 May 2010 at 7:42pm | IP Logged 
PLATT: Ostfrees is een lütte Sprook worrn, un Nordfrees is sachtens steendood, aver Nordfreesland weer fröher riek un deftig, - een deens Keunig heff sien Leven tegen de Freesen aan Husum verlörn (Abel, 1252), un Keunig Hans heff Sweden um 1500 verlörn wiel er tegen de Dithmarscher Freesen vergevens fechtete (sie heffen die Dieken aapend, un sien Ritter sünn im Schlamm steken bleven - een klassisch Kamptechniek).

DU: De enige plaats waar er nog veele mensen zign die spreken Fries, is aan de Noordkust van Nederland. Sommige schattingen zeggen waarschijnlijk 400.000 mensen - maar kan je deze nummers vertrouwen? Of is het gewoon mensen die Fries kunnen verstaan en een paar woorden zeggen, maar de meeste tijd Nederlands spreken?

LAT: Historicus danicus Saxo Grammaticus in suis Gestibus Danorum ad Fresia Minor refert, dicens quod "a Iutie prominentia subsidentium camporum ac gremii deuexeioris inclinita recessu maximos frugum prouentus beneficio Oceani inundantis assequitur. Cuius reflexionis uis plus utilitatis an periculi incolis afferat, ambiguum extat. Siquidem tempestatis magnitudine perruptis esturiis, quibus apud eos maritimi fluctus intercipi solent, tanta aruis undarum moles incedere consueuit, ut interdum non solum agrorum culta, uerumetiam homines cum penatibus obruat". Vere terra fresii semper diminuebat, quia submersa per tempestas in mare undibus obferta est. Ars aggeris construere vetusta est, sed contra potestatem elementarum non valet.      

---

Eastern Frisian has become a tiny language community, and Nordfrisian seems to be stone dead now. But the Frisians in the German landscape Ditmarsh were once wealthy and thriving. One Danish king died there (Abel in 1252), and the Swedes left the Kalmar Union while king Hans was busy fighting the Frisians around 1500 - actually the Frisians opened the dikes, and the heavy-clad mercenary army of the King got stuck in the mud and water.

The Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus wrote around 1240 in his Gesta Danorum that (Northern) Frisia was curbed up into Jutland, and that it was a flat area with lowlying fields, which often were inundated by the sea. This made the soil fertile, but it was difficult to say whether this situation was a blessing or a curse, because in bad weather the dikes were flooded and men and hourses were carried into the sea. Let me add that this still potentially is the situation, even though the dikes are much higher and stronger now than during the Medieval period.

The only place where the Frisian language still seems to be spoken is the Northern coastal region of the Netherlands, where up to 400.000 persons are said to be able to speak the Western dialects. But can we trust that number, or does it just refer to people who in principle should be able to speak the language, but who actually speak Dutch at home? One stage in the death of a language is the one where only the old people speak it, the middleaged understand it and the youngsters don't care (because they listen to English music all day long through their earphones so that they can't hear what their elderly family members say).


Edited by Iversen on 01 June 2010 at 6:47pm

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Hobbema
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 Message 1850 of 3959
25 May 2010 at 9:33pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:

...One stage in the death of a language is the one where only the old people speak it, the middleaged understand it and the youngsters don't care ...


Well said.
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Iversen
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 Message 1851 of 3959
26 May 2010 at 1:58am | IP Logged 
I have now at long last written the summary for April at page 226.

Edited by Iversen on 26 May 2010 at 2:06am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1852 of 3959
26 May 2010 at 9:06am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I have now at long last written the summary for April at page 226.


Bedankt voor de samenvatting, Iversen. Ik heb even de citaten van mij doorgekeken. Alles is goed geciteerd.

Fasulye
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Fasulye
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 Message 1853 of 3959
26 May 2010 at 9:11am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
The only place where the Frisian language still seems to be spoken is the Northern coastal region of the Netherlands, where up to 400.000 persons are said to be able to speak the Western dialects. But can we trust that number, or does it just refer to people who in principle should be able to speak the language, but who actually speak Dutch at home? One stage in the death of a language is the one where only the old people speak it, the middleaged understand it and the youngsters don't care (because they listen to English music all day long through their earphones so that they can't hear what their elderly family members say).


NL: Het is jammer dat je zover weg woont van Nederland dat je geen Nederlandse TV kunt ontvangen. Ik heb hier "Nederland 2" op de kabel en die zenden wel eens TV-progamma's in het Fries uit met Nederlandse ondertitels. Als ik erna kijk, dan orienteer ik me meer op de ondertitels (want dat leest zo makkelijk...), maar ik krijg tenminste een goede indruk ervan hoe het Fries zo klingt.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 26 May 2010 at 9:12am

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Wise owl chick
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 Message 1854 of 3959
26 May 2010 at 12:35pm | IP Logged 
Het Fries lijkt een soort dronken Nederlands haha! Veel dichterbij AN dan sommige Duitse dialekte zijn aan Hochdeutsch.

Gisteren was ik zo moe dat ik 's-middags in slaap viel en vanmorgen vonden ze het prima dat ik lang sliep en om 11:30u heb ik het ontbijt gegeten. Ik wilde havermoutpap maar de haver was op dus ik had joghourt, kersen, roggebiscuits, boter en jam.

Ik vind het een beetje jammer dat Friesland niet al lang geleden een zelfstandig land is gewroden, net als Nederland of Denemarken want dan was de taal met de dialekten in goede staat gebelven. Dat is met het Schots misschien hetzelfde.
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Iversen
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 Message 1855 of 3959
28 May 2010 at 1:47am | IP Logged 
It is beyond 1 am here - so this will be a short summary.

LAT: Tempus impendi photographias manu copiare ac scandere per sitio societatis mei peregrinatorum - regulam habemus ut quicumque nationem novam prima volta visitaret societatem informare debet. Quidam ePistulam electronicam scribet, alii photocartulam mittent, et ego mensam semel informationes in sitium nostrum transfero.

FR: Ce faisant, j'ai écouté une cassette avec de la musique de la renaissance ou mediévale, - des componistes comme Vogelveide, Landini, Obrecht, Okeghem, desPrez, Dufay et Sermisy. En principe la majorité de leurs compositions a été conçue comme musique vocale, mais j'ai ramassé une heure et demie de versions instrumentales, et j'aime bien écouter cette musique d'antan - sans voix, évidemment.

RO: În plus, am continuat proiectul meu de-a marca verbele în dicţionarul meu de Teora, în funcţie de faptul dacă aceştia au sau nu au un infix. De mod ce am scris anterior, nu existeău reguli fixe pentru care verbe se împart în cele două grupuri. De exemplu 1p.sing. de a compensa este compensez (conform dicţionarului Academiei), dar de a compara e cumpăr. Nu se poata să ştie acest lucru despre un verb arbitrar, dar numerul verbelor cu afixe este mai mare decât numerul fără infix. Numai verbele care termineau la -e are in general nici un infix.

SW: Jag har mest sett svennsk och engelska TV idag. Från Sverige bland annat ett program om en far och en son som har en mobil livsmedelsbutik som körer runnt til små landsbygder i Skåne som har förlorat sin sista butik. Den skånska dialekt av svenska har sin egen unika karaktär, som till exempell att "från" uttalas som /fräuw/ och "tror" som /tröuwer/. Det är kult att den dialekt av svenska som talas närmest Danmark (på gammel dansk mark), är den absolutt svåraste att förstå för danskarna.

----

I have spent some time this evening copying and scanning postcards from the members of my travel club. We have the rule that every member who visits a new country or territory for the first time shall report this to the club. Some members do this through e-mail, while others send real oldfashioned postcards. And once every month I collect the information and update the postcard pages and country lists. Of course this takes time.

I have however found time to add more indications of infix/no infix at the verbs in my Romanian Teora dictionary. Today I got through the letter 'C'.

While I did this I listened to a tape with instrumental versions of short pieces by Medieval and Renaissance composers, i.e. people of yonder like Walther von der Vogelveide, Francesco Landini, Jacob Obrecht, Johannes Okeghem, Josquin desPrez, Guillaume Dufay et Claudin de Sermisy - as indicated by the names this is a truly international bunch of men, which reflect the supranational character of art music from the olden times. They mostly wrote vocal music, but I prefer hearing these pieces in instrumental versions.

And yes, I did watch TV, some in Swedish, some in English. For instance a program from Swedish TV about a father and his son who have a mobile grocery. Their customers are mostly elderly people without cars who live in small villages which have lost their last shop. The Scanian dialect is easily recognizable, allegedly less easy to understand. It is a paradox that one of the least comprehensible dialects of Swedish is spoken so close to Denmark, and even on soil that was Danish until 1659.


Edited by Iversen on 28 May 2010 at 11:15am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1856 of 3959
28 May 2010 at 12:04pm | IP Logged 
DE: Ich war gestern bei meiner Esperantogruppe in Düsseldorf. Ich hatte einen Text über den blinden Dichter und Polyglot Wasilij Erosxenko aus der Ukraine mitgenommen (Im Polyglot Subforum gibt's einen Thread dazu!), den ich zusammen mit meinen drei Gruppenmitgliedern gelesen habe. Sie fanden den Text sehr interessant. Es war eine Esperanto-Anfängerin dabei, daher mussten wir auch ausnahmsweise Erklärungen auf Deutsch geben. Normalerweise sprechen wir überhaupt kein Deutsch in der Gruppe.

Leider bin ich zur Zeit unfähig zum Sprachenstudium, da meine Konzentrationsfähigkeit nicht funktioniert. Das ist eindeutig Internetsucht, das heißt ich muss Gegenmaßnahmen ergreifen und mich - zeitweise - aus dem Forum zurückziehen.

Ich werde jetzt probieren mein Sprachenstudium wieder in Ordnung zu bringen, ich weiß allerdings nicht wieviel Zeit ich dafür brauche. Zum Glück bin ich keine Schülerin oder Studentin, die lernen MUSS. Daher ist das nicht ganz so fatal, wenn das Lernen zeitweilig nicht geht. Ich lerne ja nur, weil es mein Hobby ist. Ich werde allerdings in der Zeit wichtige Threads kurz lesen. Aber was ich an Internetaktivitäten hatte, war wirklich des Guten zuviel. Da braucht man sich über so ein Problem nicht zu wundern.

Fasulye



Edited by Fasulye on 28 May 2010 at 1:47pm



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