Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

  Tags: Multilingual
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
3959 messages over 495 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 381 ... 494 495 Next >>


Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3041 of 3959
19 September 2012 at 12:14am | IP Logged 
I have spent most of the evening writing a dozen or so travel articles for the new homepage of my travel club, and because they are in Danish this hasn't contributed to my language learning - but maybe somebody can use them as extensive reading materials.

But not all my time today was lost on Danish. I have also reread some of the foreign texts which I long ago have illustrated in my language series of paintings. I intend to do the second video about the 'Romance' (and Latin+Greek+Russian) paintings soon, but then I'll probably stop. The original plan for the series encompassed most of my paintings, but the viewer numbers at Youtube aren't so high that it is worth the effort to publish more videos about my paintings.

In the bus back home from my job I still read my old old light blue TY Afrikaans textbook. As usual I find the pseudo narrative style irritating - language learning doesn't become more interesting just because you let some obnoxious fictive upper-class persons visit clothes shops, eat in restaurants with old friends and give their staff curt orders. But it is an easy format for reading in a crowded place.

Edited by Iversen on 19 September 2012 at 3:12pm

2 persons have voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3042 of 3959
20 September 2012 at 6:28pm | IP Logged 
I made a new video yesterday about paintings illustrating the Romance languages and a few more, so evidently I also spent time studying some of the texts. Against all expectations I found a likely source for the 'Portuguese' painting, which I knew was based on a poem named "Alcool" - the´inebriated poet turned out to be Mário de Sá-Carneiro. But the autor of the Occitan poem "Estelum" is still a mystery - although I have had the pleasure of reading some old and new texts in that language.

PO: O autor do poema "Alcool" é Mário de -Carneiro:

Guilhotinas, pelouros e castelos
bla-bla-bla

Que droga foi a que me inoculei?
Ópio d'inferno em vez de paraíso?...
Que sortilégio a mim próprio lancei?
Como é que em dor genial eu me eterizo?

Ne ópio dem morfina. O que me ardeu
Foi alcool mais raro e penetrante:
bla-bla-bla


FR: Par contre, je n'ai pas pu identifier aucun poète occitane qui ait écrit un poème intitulé "Estelum" - 'étoiles'. J'ai une vague idée que ce soit quelqu'un aux alentours de Mistral, peut-être le maître lui-même, mais là la chasse finit sans résultat. Or j'ai lu pas mal de textes dans l'occitan moderne plus quelques textes qui expliquent sa situation ici maintenant, où le français est près de l'avoir égorgée complètement - sauf chez les rares vieillards qui sachent encore parler la langue des troubadours.

LAT: Pars tractati ex anno 960 ad temporibus hodiernibus superavit quae in linguae mixtae latina ac occitana facta est:

"De ista hora in antea non DECEBRÀ Ermengaus filius Eldiarda Froterio episcopo filio Girberga NE Raimundo filio Bernardo vicecomite de castello de Cornone...".

Etiam ex 1000-1030 poema in parte exstat de philosophi Boetii, nomine "Boecis":

Cum jaz Boecis e pena, charceraz,
Plan se sos dols e sos menuz pecaz,
D’una donzella fo laïnz visitaz:
Filla·s al rei qui a granz poestaz
bla bla bla .


Please notice the sign · which normally separates pairs of l's in Catalan - but here it is used as an apostrophe.

Today I have for the first time in several months done some active listening exercises in Irish, using abair.ie - it was actually Serpent who reminded me of my own 'discovery' from earlier this year. The idea is that you listen very attentively to very short snippets of text and try to write down in some kind of phonetic writing exactly what you hear - and not what you expected the speaker to say. The problem is that you need absolute silence around you and a fair amount of concentration, and these things are hard to get in a flat in a highrise house.

The text I used was the beginning of a project report from county Mayo, where children were allowed to write their own books in Irish and get them published. The good thing about this text is that it is bilingual in Irish and English - otherwise I would have had to use Google Translate which isn't quite reliable, especially not with a 'small' language as Irish where there aren't enough parallel texts (but the Latin translator is worse!). However I use my own hyperliteral translation below.

I also stubbornly persist in using my own homebrewed sound writing system, even though it will be almost useless for most readers. But IPA doesn't 'speak' to me.

· indicates a long sound, boldface means an accent, æ and å are Danish signs (IPA ɛ and ɔ), ŏ is an open o as in 'porridge' (I have earlier used ɔ as I was taught while studying French, but somehow ɔ became the sign for å in IPA),ö is the schwa sound (easier to write on my keyboard than ə), and finally α and χ are Greek letters (open a and a deep guttural 'ch' sound)

shkrjå·ljå·
Scríobh leabhar
'write book'

ishkjæ·m æ·ntαχ(h)i i sjŏ·
Is scéim iontach í seo,
Is scheme wonderful she this

ŏröi ()gfŏröshn() gæ·ligö
urraithe ag Foras na Gaelige
supported by Institution of Gaelic

ö gŏlö hanödŏdjahash mwuŏ
i gcomhar le hIonad Oideachais Mhaigh Eo,
in cooperation with center education's (of) Mayo

hashlα·nö uŏ·ri
Caisleán a'Barraigh
Castlebar

ö hŏ·gön dæshdö fŏ·jsti
a thugann deis do pháisti
which gives opportunity for children

ægŏjd lji hæ·n
a gcuide leabhair féin
their books own/self

öshkru ösh gæ·jligö
a scríobh as Gaeilge.
to write in Gaelic

Each item above is as about long as it should be for this kind of activity. In the speech synthethizer abair you can just put full stops, then the rendering is split in nice small packets. In others you may have to quote each stump separately.

Edited by Iversen on 20 September 2012 at 7:01pm

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3043 of 3959
24 September 2012 at 12:32pm | IP Logged 
LAT: Hodie mane horam 7.49 ricevis librum "Harrius Potter Et Camera Secretorum", sed nondum librum Harrii unum de lapide philosophorum in lingvae hibernicae legit - tempus fugebat cum labore et alibus proiectis. Ego taeniovideones de tabulis meis feci - sed non omnium ut ab initio propositum meum fuit - et postea peregrinationes ad paginam novam consociationis peregrinatorium transtuli.

(Time flies by ... I have been busy transferring my travelogues from the old homepage of my travel club to the new one, and before that I spent time making videos about my paintings. I haven't had time to tacle my Harry P I in Irish yet, and now I have also received Harry P II in Latin with a real postman ringing my doorbell at 7.49 this morning. No. III in Greek has been spotted at Amazon, but at an elevated price)

SCO: Ah hae likewys ordered Lewis Carrol's "Ailice's Àventurs in Wunnerland" in Scots. Quote frae Amazon: "The translator haes uised tradeetional spellins the likes o wis set doun bi Burns, Scott, Slater an many ither, tho wantin the "apologetic apostrophes" ye aft see in thae beuks. This is gaes alang wi maist writins in Scots fae the aichteenth century on, an reads fine tae modren Scots spaekers bred up tae sic tradeetions". THe beuk shall come aboot Wadensday.

EDIT 25/9: The beuk came the day and tis a wee little thing

Edited by Iversen on 25 September 2012 at 11:10am

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3044 of 3959
27 September 2012 at 2:04am | IP Logged 
SCO: Ah read the fairst pairt o Ailice in the bus back hame frae me job the day, and as ah hae written it isnae fickle tae unnerstaund, whit makes it a braw thingum fair readin in a plaice whare you cannae use yer dictioner. Afore ah read the teache yerself Afrikaans, whit has its ain inbuilt leets o wirds an expressions.

ENG: Besides I have been reading some texts about Old English because of the threads about Old English and its relations to Icelandic resp. to the Celtic languages. And here I hit upon a number of original texts Old English beyond the famous Beowulf, including one that began like this:

Welund him be wurman       (Weland himself, by means of worms (swords?))
wræces cunnade   (experienced agony)
anhydig eorlthe (strong-minded)
nobleearfoþa dreag (endured troubles)
hæfde him to gesiþþe (he had for his companions)
sorge and longaþ (sorrow and longing)
wintercealde wræce (winter-bitter wrack)
wean oft onfond   (he often found misery)

This definitely rang a bell because the same person is the hero of a section of the Sæmundar-Edda, namely the socalled Völundarkviða from Sæmund's Edda, which has the same story with even more grim details.

IC:Völundr og tveir bræður hans voru synir Finnarkonungs, og fundu þeir og bjuggu með þremur valkyrjur. En valkyrjurna og bræðurna fóru eftir 9 ár, og Volund sat einn í Ulfdölum og gjerði hringar og margt annað. Svíþjóð-konunginn Niðuðr sendi þa menn út til að stela öllu, og þeir skera einnig sinar Volunds í knéfótum svo að hann gat ekki undan. Restin af sögun lýsir hefnd Völunds. Hann drap konungins tvo syni og gerði skeljarna þeirra til drykkbollar fyrir konunginum, nauðgaði og frjóvgaði dóttur konungins Bödvild og gerði sér fjederham svo hann gæti flogið í burtu. En fyrst náði hann að fá spjall við konunginum:

Níðuður kvað:
Seg þú mér það, Völundur,
vísi álfa,
af heilum hvað varð
húnum mínum.
(tell me, wise elf, whatever happened to my brave boys)

Völundur kvað:
(...)
    Gakk þú til smiðju
    þeirrar er þú gerðir,
    þar finnur þú belgi
    blóði stokkna;
    sneið eg af höfuð
    húna þinna
    og und fen fjöturs
    fætur um lagðag.

(go to the smithy which you set up for me and you'll find the bloody hides.
I cut off the heads of your sons, laid the bodies down under the clay of the fireplace)

    En þær skálar,
    er und skörum vóru,
    sveip eg utan silfri,
    senda eg Níðaði;
    en úr augum
    jarknasteina
    senda eg kunnigri
    kvon Níðaðar,
    en úr tönnum
    tveggja þeirra
    sló eg brjóstkringlur,
    senda eg Böðvildi.

(and the sculls which were cut off I enveloped in silver and sent to Nidudr,
and the eyes as jewels I sent to the cunning wife of the king,
and of the teeth of those two I forged necklaces (and) sent them to Bödvild)

(...)

    Nú gengur Böðvildur
    barni aukin,
    einkadóttir
    ykkur beggja.

(now Bödvild walks 'increased with' a child (=pregnant), the only daughter of you two)..

And then Vølund flew away on his artificial wings and nobody ever saw him again... apart from his appearence in a play by Adam Oehlenschläger, Vaulundurs Saga, which was set to music by Fini Henriques.


Edited by Iversen on 27 September 2012 at 9:58am

2 persons have voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3045 of 3959
27 September 2012 at 5:31pm | IP Logged 
AF: Ek was gereed om te huis toe te gaan van my werk, as dit begin erg swaar te reën. So nou sit ek en luister na potgooie op Afrikaans vanaf RSG, "Radio Sonder Grense". Die konkreete program word genoem Tjailatyd ("babble time"), en ek luister na 'n gesprek van 17/9 2012 oor die internet, wat natuurlik 'n baie relevante tema. Er is onder andere gepraat oor "memes", wat 'aansteeklik' stukke van denkgoedere is wat op weerlig spoed versprei deur die Internet.

The rain began to pour down just when I was ready to go home. So instead I have been listening to podcasts from RSG 'Radio without border' from South Africa. They have a fair amount of those podcasts, and the one I have listen to is a conversation about the internet, where the two participants discuss the internet and the notion of "memes". These are contagious expressions and themes and celebs (!) etc. which spread like a prairie fire through the internet, and then suddenly they are gone again. And that's often the most positive thing you can say about them.

But for some reason the meme meme has also lead to the creation of factories and dumps for badly drawn cartoons and gross jokes written on 'cards' with ugly human faces. This is slightly more entertaining than celebrity gossip (although there is some overlap), but it does look like a temporary phenomenon which we just have live with until it stops. Like the rain.

Edited by Iversen on 27 September 2012 at 5:40pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Josquin
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3028 days ago

2266 posts - 3992 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish
Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian

 
 Message 3046 of 3959
27 September 2012 at 8:30pm | IP Logged 
How fascinating that you bring up Old English and Old Norse literature! That's just what I am dealing with at the moment. Couldn't understand much of the OE text without your translation, but the ON one was quite comprehensible. Thanks for posting that! It encourages me in continuing my studies of Old Germanic languages.
1 person has voted this message useful



montmorency
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 3012 days ago

2371 posts - 3675 votes 
Speaks: English*, German
Studies: Danish, Welsh

 
 Message 3047 of 3959
27 September 2012 at 10:43pm | IP Logged 
Someone on here had reminded me that there are quite a few parallel texts commercially published, and I looked on both Abebooks.co.uk and amazon.co.uk, and, while there was not all that much, and not much of interest to me, but there were some Old-English-English texts, including Beowulf.


The same person (I think) also mentioned the fairly numerous parallel texts produced by the Reclam publisher in Germany. I looked on their web site, and there was quite a reasonable number.


Unfortunately, most were a bit too obscure for me, but for example, anyone who wanted Latin-German (and probably Classical Greek-German) would probably be happy, and I think there was some Old English(-probably with German).

They were quite cheap as well, but I don't know about the postage.


1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4887 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3048 of 3959
28 September 2012 at 1:30pm | IP Logged 
The only problem is that the translations sometimes are so free that you spend as much time on comparing original and translation (with mixed results) as you would have done on looking words and endings up yourself. I once made my own translation of Völuspá, using the ones I could find but essentially rewriting it from scratch. And for this message I also made my own translation of the relevant parts of the da. Völundarkviδa. I have been tempted to do the same with Beowulf, but my OE isn't quite good enough so I had to use the one from the internet as I found it. Maybe it also plays a role that the Beowulf text is several hundred years older than the Eddas of Snorri and Sæmundur, and that the Anglosaxon writing tradition in the meantime was interrupted by the Norman invasion. Who knows what Anglosaxon would have looked like around 1200 without that crucial event?

Edited by Iversen on 28 September 2012 at 1:56pm



1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 3959 messages over 495 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.5625 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2019 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.