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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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whipback
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United States
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91 posts - 118 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Dutch, French

 
 Message 1977 of 3959
04 August 2010 at 7:58pm | IP Logged 
I am a little confused about your word list method. I have made my paper into four columns. The I wrote out 7 words in Russian on the left most column. Do I go through the list right after I write them to see if I know their translation? Then do I write their translation right away or do I wait for a while? And how long is a while... 10 minutes, 1 hour, 1 day?
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Iversen
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 Message 1978 of 3959
04 August 2010 at 10:35pm | IP Logged 
In all essence you have columns divided into three subcolumns for the first round, and then repetition columns with just two subcolumns. Let's say that T1, T2 etc. are words in the target language and B1, B2, B3 etc. their translations into your native language.

Then the three subcolumns to the left have this form

T1 B1 T1
T2 B2 T2
..
etc.
etc.

and the subcolumns to the right have this form

B1 T1
B2 T2
..
etc.
etc.

I have a small handwriting, so I fold a sheet and put two main columns (à 3) plus to repetition columns (à 2) across the page. Ppeople with larger handwriting may have to write in the other driection and limit themselves to one column of each kind (T1 B1 T1   | B1 T1 etc.).

The reason I fold the paper is to make it more manageable when I'm sitting in an armchair with a dictionary while doing my lists.

You ask how long time you should wait before doing the repetition. Well, I have found that one day is fine, but the important thing is that you don't do it right after writing the main columns, but you do it while you still can recall your reactions to the words.

The thing you train with this method is not really memorization, but rather recall. First you collect 5-7 'foreign' words from a source (your notes from reading something or a dictionary). You learn their translations - using whatever method you find most efficient for this purpose - and when you have done that you write all the translations in one go. The reason for this is to make sure you can remember the translations of each foreign word after having done something else (i.e. thinking about other words). And then you repeat the process in the other direction, ie. you check that you can ratle off all 5-7 foreign words when you see their translation. If not then you relearn them until all 5-7 words stick, then and only then you write them down.

In the repetition round you just check that you can do the hard part, namely remembering the foreign words when you see the translations into your native language.

If you can't recall a certain word then have a peek to refresh it, but don't write the solution before you have done something else - the easiest solution is to include it into your next block of wordpairs.

You can see more details plus examples in part 4 of my Guide to Learning Languages, message 3.



Edited by Iversen on 05 August 2010 at 10:00am

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whipback
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United States
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91 posts - 118 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Dutch, French

 
 Message 1979 of 3959
04 August 2010 at 10:46pm | IP Logged 
Thank you for the response! But when you do the main columns do you do B1 (the translation) right after you know all of the words for T1 (target language) or do you wait a day before you translate them too?
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Iversen
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 Message 1980 of 3959
04 August 2010 at 10:51pm | IP Logged 
I do all three subcolumns in the main columns in one go for each block of words. I.e. first I write column 1 for the first 5-7 words, memorize their translations, then write subcolumn 2. Then I check that I can recall all the original words from their translations (or relearn them), cover subcolumn 1 and write subcolumn 3.

And after that I continue to the next block of words and do column 1,2 and 3 in the same way.

Typically I can write around 30 words in one column (4-5 blocks), and I would normally do at least two columns in one day, but often more. The reason is that it takes some minutes to get into the rhythm so my recall rate gets better after 10-15 minutes, then tapers off if I continue too long time.



Edited by Iversen on 04 August 2010 at 10:57pm

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whipback
Groupie
United States
Joined 3784 days ago

91 posts - 118 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Dutch, French

 
 Message 1981 of 3959
04 August 2010 at 10:56pm | IP Logged 
Ok, thank you so much! Just let me say after trying several failed methods for me (Gold List, Flash Cards, etc.) your method seems to really work and has made me very motivated! Thanks again!
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Iversen
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9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 1982 of 3959
05 August 2010 at 1:02pm | IP Logged 
IR: Dhúisigh mé go moch ar maidin, agus ansin rinne mé liosta le focal Gaeilge go díreach ó mo fhoclóir. Ní raibh ar a laghad céad focal. Beidh mé ag léamh an ghramadach na Gaeilge ó "Teach Yourself" sa bus sa bhaile an tráthnóna seo. Is meascán é de leabhair gramadaí agus téacsleabhair. Is fearr liom an Gramadach na Gaeilge!

I woke up early this morning and spent some time doing an Irish wordlist. Well, I started out studying my TY Irish, but sometimes I just feel more inclined to learn words directly from the dictionary like from a conveyor belt.. My bus-back-from-work-book today will be Irish grammar from TY, even though it is an unholy mixture of a real grammar and a textbook - the online "Gramadach na Gaeilge" in a paperversion would be much better.


Edited by Iversen on 05 August 2010 at 1:20pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4893 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 1983 of 3959
07 August 2010 at 4:20pm | IP Logged 
I didn't write anything here yesterday, but nevertheless it was not a wasted day. I continued my reading of the Russian history book, and now the Mongols are heading for the end of their reign - Alexander Nevskij is waiting for them in the next chapter! And then Ivan Moneybag will move the capital to Moscow.

I continued my study of Greek with the paragraphs about Periclis and Socratis and the Golden Age.

I made wordlists in Irish - four columns with around 30 words in each plus repetition of some older lists.

I made wordlists in Bahasa Malaysia and started to work my way through some texts about the museums in Kuching Sarawak

and I fell aslep after one page or so of The Odyssey in Icelandic

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Iversen
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berejst.dk
Joined 4893 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 1984 of 3959
08 August 2010 at 12:07am | IP Logged 
RU: Я - немного разочарован! Я думал это, что Александр Невский бросил монголов из России, но он самом деле сотрудничал с ними, - и это, конечно, было неизбежна в 1240 году. Он стал знаменитым, потому что он преодолел нашествия шведов на реке Неве. И хотя он спас Новгород, это не столь большой холдинг*, как избить монголов. Так русские должны жить в татаро-монгольского ига еще пару веков, пока я прихожу к главе Иван Калита.

I'm slightly disappointed. With all the fame Alexander Nevsky has got (including big churches in Sofia and Tallinn) I had thought that he more or less singlehandedly had thrown the Mongols out of Russia - but actually he 'only' beat a Swedish invasion corps on the river Neva. Sct. Petersburg was of course not there yet, but Novgorod was spared and the town kept its free access to the Bothnian Bay. So the Russians have to wait several hundred years more until I reach the period of Ivan Kalita.

DA: Det er sørme pudsigt! Jeg har boet længe i den danske by Kolding, og så ser man at 'dåd, bedrift' hedder холдинг på russisk!

That's funny! I have lived many years in a Danish town called Kolding, and then I discover that the Russian word for 'deed, feat' is холдинг!


Edited by Iversen on 08 August 2010 at 12:33am



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