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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Hobbema
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 Message 1657 of 3959
31 January 2010 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:

Robert Schumann has sometimes been denigrated as a mediocre composer, not least for his instrumentation, but mostly by people who couldn't write anything themselves at the same level. His best period was around the time where he wed the young pianist/composer Clara Wieck, - in one year he spewed out more quality music than most composer do in a whole lifetime, and the first symphony is one of those works. The fourth is also a masterwork, and from the chamber music I would point to the Piano Quintett.

PS: After the Unfinished no. 8 the best symphony by Schubert is in my opinion no. 5, - no. 9 (7) in C is also good, but ve-----eeery long. It has been discussed whether no. 9 was in fact no. 7 (which otherwise is missing from the series). But I have in my collection Newbould's reconstruction of the true no. 7, which is a good and solid work, but clearly not at the same high level as the genuine symphonies.


Het is triest dat critici en geschiedenis zijn onvriendelijk
It is sad that critics and history are unkind

aan Schumann, en   denk van hem als middelmatig. Zijn muziek
to    Schumann, and think of   him   as    ;mediocre.     H is music

geleefd heeft meer   dan   honderd &nbs p;  jaar,&nb sp; en hij was
lived     has   more than a hundred years, and he was

een genie   en een wonderkind in zijn tijd.   Maar nu hij
a   genius and a      prodigy &nbs p; in his time. But now he

vergeleken met alle andere genieen.
compared   with all   other geniuses.


Maar van Schubert mijn favoriet is de 8e, weet ik niet de 5e of 9e
But    of Schubert my favorite is the 8th, know I not the 5th or 9th.

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Iversen
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 Message 1658 of 3959
31 January 2010 at 11:06pm | IP Logged 
My summary will be ready tomorrow, but I have a couple of things I would like to comment on. The first is of course music: I have now only one hour of Schubert left in my collection before I move on. But listening to one composer for so long time and in so many genres ressembles an immersion experience: you understand a lot more of his writing style. In the case of Schubert the most known works are those that are soft and melancholic in character, and this fits the picture of a poor ill man who couldn't get his works performed, but just relished in the company of good friends. But when you get down into the world of the lesser known works, you discover that he also could write 'hard' music (in the aftermath of the Beethoven revolution). One thing that everyone who has played his works knows is that he was very fond of extreme tonalities, - lots of sharps and flats all over the place. Personally I see him as the link between Beethoven and Bruckner.

Έχω επίσης ένα σχόλιο για μια εκπομπή που είδα στη γερμανική τηλεόραση ("Terra X"). Ενα αυστριακός ερευνητής Ραουλ Σροττ μελέτησε την Ιλιάδα και διαπίστωσε κάποια πράγματα που είναι καλύτερα προσαρμοσμένες στις Κιλικία της Μικράς Ασίας από την Τροία του Σλήμαν. Υπήρξε προφανώς Έλληνες στην Κιλικία περίπου το 700 π.Χ., και μια επιγραφή στην αλουβιτικά (?) και στην Φοίνικά αναφέρεται αυτά όπως - αντίστοιχα - Αχαιοί και Δαναιδες. Tον εαυτό Κικέρων αναφέρει 'Θηβαίες' στην Κιλικία. Σροττ έχουν επίσης βρεθεί μια πόλη Karatepe πράγματι πολιορκήθηκε για εννέα χρόνια από την Ασσυρίων, ενώ υπάρχουν ίχνη από μακρά πολιορκία του Σλήμαν στην Τροία κάστρο Χισσαρλικ. Σροττ ισχυρίζεται επίσης ότι ο Όμηρος ως νεαρός άνδρας ήτανε γραφέας στην Κιλικία, και ως εκ τούτου έχει αφήσει τα στοιχεία από τους πολέμους στην Κιλικία στην Ιλιάδα του. Δεν έχω δει αλλού ότι ο Όμηρος θα πρέπει να έχουν ζήσει στην Κιλικία, αλλά αν είναι αλήθεια, είναι απόλυτα λογικό ότι αυτό το μέρος της ιστορίας του πολέμου αντανακλάται στο έργο του. Αυτό δεν σημαίνει ότι η Τροία είναι Karatepe - αλλά αλλά απλώς ότι ορισμένες από τις λεπτομέρειες μπορεί να προέλθει από τους πολέμους στα 700-καταμέτρηση μεταξύ Ελλήνων στη Μικρά Ασία και τη σκληρή Ασσυρίων.. Tώρα περιμένω με ανυπομονησία για άλλους επιστήμονες οι οποίοι επιθυμούν να υποβάλουν παρατηρήσεις σχετικά με την "Κιλίκιες σύνδεση".

The other thing I want to mention is a theory from a TV program in the German series "Terra X". An Austrian archeologue Raoul Schrott has dug up a lot of details in the Iliad that might point not to Schliemann's Troia at Hissarlik, but to things that took place in Kilikila in Asia Minor around 700 BC, i.e. at a time where Homer could have lived (even though his language as far as I know looks 'older' than that of for instance Hesiod, who also should have lived around this time). Schrott has apparently dug up evidence that there were Greeks in Kilikia, and that they were called Achaians and Danaids (?) in resp. Aluwitian and Phoenician inscriptions, and Cicero himself is quoted for a reference to 'Thebans' in the region. Besides a town Katalepe was under siege by the cruel Assyrians for 9 years, which does ring a bell somewhere. Finally Schrott claims that Homer lived in Kilikia as a scribe in his youth (though I have never ever heard about this stay in other sources). However if Homer actually was there in the 700s BC it would not be unnatural for him to use local information about these incidents in his Iliad - but this still doesn't mean that Katalepe simply IS Troja. There may or may not be a historical lineage that reaches back to the 11-1200s BC as supposed by most scholars, and this may involve the town(s) found at Hissarlik or not. Right now we laymen cannot do anything but wait for comments from other qualified scientists on this proposed 'Kilikian connection'.


Edited by Iversen on 01 February 2010 at 12:15am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1659 of 3959
01 February 2010 at 8:16am | IP Logged 
A strange dialogue is developing: Hobbema speaks about Robert Schumann's compositions and Iversen always speaks about Schubert. I checked that also a composer Franz Schubert exists. For me as a reader it's confusing.

Thanks for the summary, Iversen! Even, if I post less in your log, I read it regularly.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 01 February 2010 at 10:17am

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Iversen
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 Message 1660 of 3959
01 February 2010 at 11:08am | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:
A strange dialogue is developing: Hobbema speaks about Robert Schumann's compositions and Iversen always speaks about Schubert.


Hobbema accidentally listened to Schumann which led to some comments on Schumann, - and I have been writing about Schubert simply because I have been doing a marathon listening to his works for several days. However I'm soon through my Schubert collection, and then he leaves the agenda.

Themes in this log has a tendency to pop up in quite unexpected places, and then some stay on the agenda, while others just turn up once. However this doesn't mean that I don't also spend time on for instance paleontology and astronomy. And I have also mentioned such themes here, but this just didn't evolve into a real discussion. I still remember our discussions about extraterrestrial planets and ediacarian fauna, and such themes are as welcome here as classical music, which has been fairly prominent here for some time.

In fact the mission of this thread (as indicated by its name) is to be confusing.


Edited by Iversen on 01 February 2010 at 11:09am

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 Message 1661 of 3959
01 February 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Themes in this log has a tendency to pop up in quite unexpected places, and then some stay on the agenda, while others just turn up once. However this doesn't mean that I don't also spend time on for instance paleontology and astronomy. And I have also mentioned such themes here, but this just didn't evolve into a real discussion. I still remember our discussions about extraterrestrial planets and ediacarian fauna, and such themes are as welcome here as classical music, which has been fairly prominent here for some time.

In fact the mission of this thread (as indicated by its name) is to be confusing.


In fact my own circumstances have changed from the beginning time of your log. I have now picked up a second target language and I have started my project of cooking regularly and running my cooking log. The last few weeks I have spent less time on reading about astronomy and paleontology. If I comment on my hobbies of natural science in your log, I have to go into detail to produce a certain level of knowlegde. I shouldn't write any superficial things, because that wouldn't interest you. But this costs time, which I now spend for checking recipes, looking up vocabulary in them, my Danish pronounciation training and so on and so on. So I find it useful that Hobbema keeps the discussion going by using the topic of classical music. It really makes a difference to me, if I study ONE foreign language or TWO foreign languages. My decision was to start with Danish and doing the cooking project - even if I have less time to write other posts.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 01 February 2010 at 2:17pm

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Hobbema
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 Message 1662 of 3959
02 February 2010 at 1:39am | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:
..... The last few weeks I have spent less time on reading about astronomy and paleontology. If I comment on my hobbies of natural science in your log, I have to go into detail to produce a certain level of knowlegde. I shouldn't write any superficial things, because that wouldn't interest you. But this costs time, which I now spend for checking recipes, looking up vocabulary in them, my Danish pronounciation training and so on and so on. ...


It is difficult to try to do everything. I myself have two logs, here and in another location that I try to keep up with, and I follow few others, this being one. But for the most part I try to use the logs to track my learning activities, as well as exercising my target languages, and it all takes time and energy.

Actually, Astronomy is a subject which I studied several years ago. But it is too technical for me to talk about in Dutch, since my Dutch is at an elementary level and I can write little without a dictionary. But this reminds me that back in the '80s I set out to design an economical reflecting telescope that could be built, set up, and adjusted with only a screwdriver and a crescent wrench, and with materials all of which could be bought in a hardware store. It was fun; I have no idea if it would have worked well but the mirror and optics ended up still being too expensive, so it was never completed.

I ended up buying a cheap refractor that actually works pretty well, but is dismal when trying to make fine tracking adjustments.

But I like the chaotic and confused nature of this log, and I hope to produce more confusion in future posts.
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Fasulye
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 Message 1663 of 3959
02 February 2010 at 8:16am | IP Logged 
Hobbema wrote:
Actually, Astronomy is a subject which I studied several years ago. But it is too technical for me to talk about in Dutch, since my Dutch is at an elementary level and I can write little without a dictionary. But this reminds me that back in the '80s I set out to design an economical reflecting telescope that could be built, set up, and adjusted with only a screwdriver and a crescent wrench, and with materials all of which could be bought in a hardware store. It was fun; I have no idea if it would have worked well but the mirror and optics ended up still being too expensive, so it was never completed.


Observing the night sky with their telescopes, that's what people do in my astronomy club. Especially popular in my club is doing astrophotography, we have two excellent astrophotographers, who present their digital photographs regularly. I started my hobby in 2003, but I knew from the beginning that I could only deal with astronomy theoretically, because I can't do night activities. Therefore I never thought of getting a telescope. I only have the chance to look through the telescope of my astronomy club once in a while, but we have a lot of light pollution, so it's only very seldom possible on our regular meeting evenings.

I know that there are special kits offered for children or adults to build their own telescopes. I asked for an expert's opinion on this in my club, but they told me that the quality of such telescopes wouldn't be recommendable.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 02 February 2010 at 8:19am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1664 of 3959
02 February 2010 at 8:28am | IP Logged 
Hobbema wrote:
I myself have two logs, here and in another location that I try to keep up with, and I follow few others, this being one. But for the most part I try to use the logs to track my learning activities, as well as exercising my target languages, and it all takes time and energy.


Same with me, I also have two logs. If I keep logs, I do it seriously with all the language learning involved in the projects. Yes, it's time consuming to keep the logs running and it makes a difference whether it's one or two logs.

I like this Multiconfused Log because all of the languages involved and there are many topics which I find interesting.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 02 February 2010 at 8:31am



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