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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3265 of 3959
03 May 2013 at 11:33pm | IP Logged 
EO: Mi multe kaj forte pensis je tio, kaj mi ne kredas ke mi iros tien. Mi vizitis Reykjavikon duafoje antaŭ kelkaj jaroj, la prezoj ekde multe pliigis, kaj mi ne kredas ke mi estus preta por nur paroli Islande kun la islandanoj ekster la konferenco. Krome, la konferenco okazos akurate en la semajno en julio kiam la plimulto de miaj kolegoj estos en ferioj, do mi promesis al mia estro ne preni liberan tempon dum ĝuste ĉi tiu semajno. Sed mi iros al polyglota konferenco en Budapesto en majo.
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 Message 3266 of 3959
04 May 2013 at 9:47am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
EO: Mi multe kaj forte pensis je tio, kaj mi ne kredas ke mi iros tien. Mi vizitis Reykjavikon duafoje antaŭ kelkaj jaroj, la prezoj ekde multe pliigis, kaj mi ne kredas ke mi estus preta por nur paroli Islande kun la islandanoj ekster la konferenco. Krome, la konferenco okazos akurate en la semajno en julio kiam la plimulto de miaj kolegoj estos en ferioj, do mi promesis al mia estro ne preni liberan tempon dum ĝuste ĉi tiu semajno. Sed mi iros al polyglota konferenco en Budapesto en majo.


ESP: Mi komprenas vian decidon ne iri al Rejkjaviko en julio 2013. Ankaux mi scias, ke Islando estas multekosta lando por vojagxi. De pluraj prelegoj en mia Skandinavia klubo mi scias, ke la naturo en Islando estas ege bela kaj tre speciala. Sed dum la kongreso mem oni vere estas en la kongresejo kaj auxskultas Esperanto-prelegojn k.t.p.

Bonvolu skribi iom pri viaj spertoj dum la Poliglota Konferenco en via log, mi scivolas legi pri tio!

Fasulye
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Iversen
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 Message 3267 of 3959
10 May 2013 at 4:11pm | IP Logged 
Qualche giorni fa ho comprato la guida slovena di Assimil in Italiano, e francamente mi piace questo piccolo libro con le sue traduzioni iperliterali. E infatti la lingua slovena e molto interessante, e essendo piu conservatrice su certi punti rivela anche come la lingua russa e diventato cio che e diventato ... e scusi che ci mancano accenti, ma questa tastiera slovena e un poco ideosincratica .. voi sapete, le lingue sudslave e le sue accenti e tutta una storia che su puo discutere a una altra occasione. OK, ritorniamo al sloveno. C=e solamente una forma del verbo nel passato, e cioe una forma composta di una forma del verbo copula biti - cioe essere - e un participio con il consonante l .. come nel russo. Nel russo la parte finita della copula e scomparsa assieme con tutti gli altri esempii di essere nel presente, lasciando solo il -, e il participio dopo questa debacle e divenuto la unica cosa che resti .. con le sue tre generi ecc. Lo stesso si puo vedere ancor oggi nel bulgaro. Ma una cosa fu complatemente nuova per me / anche il бы della lingua russa e infatti una forma verbale - Assimil lo chiama una forma indeclinabile e ridotto del passato remoto, e la cosidetta condizionale del sloveno e dunque formato di questa bi piu il l-participio, bi govoril = io avrei parlato. Nella lingua russa si considere il ..bi.. como particello verbale o adverbio, ma e lo stesso come la forma verbale nel sloveno. Una altra particolarita del sloveno e che ancor oggi ha ritenuto il suo dualis, e non solo come un vestigio del passato, ma come qualcosa di estremamente vivo che si usa ogni giorno. Ma con sette casi e tre generi e tre numeri e desinenze che per l o piu sono le lettere e, a, i e o usate dappertutto essenzialmente sin nessun principio governante, questo pasticcio sera veramente un problemo per colui que abbia l-idea di apprendere questa lingua. Si puo domandare come un sistema talmente complicata ha potuto sorgere sin lasciar tutta la popolazione confusa ...

OK maybe I should make a summary, and luckily I dont need as many accents in English as in Italian, and the one ' I do need I have snatched from an English thread. So basically I have bought the Italian translation of Assimil's guide to Slovenian, and I actually like it. For instance it has hyperliteral translations whereever it seems relevant, and its grammatical section is clear and well disposed. I have not planned to learn Slovenian in the near future, but it has several grammatical features which shed some light on things I know from Russian. The most conspicuous of these is that it has one and only one past tense, and thats a compound form consisting of the present of the copula verb ..biti - to be... plus a participle with an L
. You find the same thing in Bulgarian. The participle is inflected as an adjective with gender and number, but not 1,2,3 person. In Russian there has somehow occurred a great purge of copulas, and the one used in the past tense went away with the lot, leaving the participle which now has to make do as a finite verbal form. But there is one detail more, namely that the conditional in Slovenian uses the same particle plus an indeclinable rest of something which the Assimil for good or for worse equates with the Italian passato remoto. And this thing is the word bi, which looks very much like бы in Russian *hehe, I copied that from Google translate / heaven knows how to write Cyreillic letter with this keyboard where I can't even find the parantheses or accents ... heureka, I just found the parantheses () () () please insert them whereever necessary, I'm off from here in a moment. But not vefore pointing out that Slovenian has a dualis, and it is alive and kicking. So in the nominal inflection you have seven cases times three genders times three, not two numbers, and the same number of forms for the inflection of adjectives. And in the verbal inflection lo and hbehold you also find dualis with three forms - we two, you two, them two do something (with the usual choice of imperfect or perfect). I am not very surprised that the Slovenians can speak their languages, but how did such a complicated system develop_ There must have been total and utter confusion at some point, until a clear standard had emerged! Yeah, I found the exclamation sign!!!!! Bye for now.

Edited by Iversen on 13 May 2013 at 1:34pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3268 of 3959
13 May 2013 at 2:03pm | IP Logged 
OK, only 6 cases in Slovenian - it seems there isn't a vocative.

GER: Und etwas über Tastaturen: die in Ljubljana war deutsche, aber in etwas anderes umgesetzt, vermutlich Slowenisch .. aber es könnte genauso gut etwas ganz anderes sein wie Albanisch oder Lettisch oder Klingon oder Navaho. Die eine hier in Graz ist echt Deutsch, und damit kann ich umgehen. Ich habe hier und bei der Anreise ein Bissel studiert, unter anderem einige Griechische Zeitungsartikeln vom Internet. Einer der kürzere Artikel erzählte von eine griechische Dame, die tot und mummifiziert aufgefunden wurde in seinem Haus auf Aigina - sie war seit zehn Jahren tot, aber wie die Nachbarn erklärten, war sie immer so was wie ein Einzelgänger, und niemann hätte etwas besonderes daran bemerkt. Ich habe auch etwas über eine Untersuchung über Tourismus für Leute in dem 'dritten Lebensalter' - anscheinend mögen sie Kultur eher als Badeferien. Gegen 2050 werden sie nicht 12% der Griechenlandstouristen ausmachen, aber eher 30%. Unter die Voraussetzung vermutlich, daß Anhänger der goldenen Tagesanbruch ihnen nicht mit Steinen und Schimpfwörter davonjagen. Viel kann sich vor 2050 ändern! Ich habe auch Russische Nachrichten und Wikipedia-Artikel studiert, aber teilweise mit einer anderen Zugangsweise: ich habe Verbalformen gesammelt und versucht in jedem einzelönen fall zu begründen, warum perfekte oder Imperfektive Verben gebraucht wurden. Ich konnte aber dabei als Seiteneffekt feststellen, daß meine Deutsch-Russische Micro Langenscheidt bei weitem nicht genug Wörter hat - jedenfalls jedes zeite Mal ich etwas nachschlagen möchte, fehlte das Wort. Und daraus kann man wohl schließen, dass selbst 15000 Wörter nicht ausreichen, um eine einfache Zeitungs- oder Wikipedia-artikel zu lesen.

I have been studying some of the articles in my collection (the one which I wrote about last month). Among the articles in Greek there was a macabre one about a lady who had been found dead and mummified in her house on the island Aigina, and it urned out that she had been dead for at least ten years. In Denmark that couldn't happen - the tax collectors would become suspicious after a couple of weeks, but nobody apparently missed the Greek lady for ten zears - not even the Greek tax authorities (which leaves one slighhtly mystified and suspicious). She was something of a loner, as her neighbours explained.

Another, more substantial article, told about a report made for the greek Ministry for Tourism about the surge in tourism for people 'in the third age' (i.e. old ones) - apparently they are more into culture than bathing and 'sun therapy' (the direct translation of the Greek "ηλιοθεραπεία"). And their numbers will according to the article grow from around 12% now to 30% around 2050. Provided of course that they still feel welcome, and that the economic situation of elderly people in Europe doesn't deteriorate drastically. Many things could happen before the year 2050!

I have also studied some articles in Russian, but partically with another purpose: I culled each and every verbal form and tried to explain why the author had used an imperfect or perfect verb. But sometimes I had to check, and thereby I had to acknowledge that my micro Langenscheidt with 2 x 15.000 words wasn't nearly comprehensive enough: just about every other time I tried to look a word up it was missing in the dictionary. So if 15.000 words aren't enough for a dictionary, then it can't be enough for a human being either, and I can just as well resume my vocabulary studies. Which actually is what I'm doing right now: after a slightly barren period in April I have now returned to my Russian A to Я wordlist, and I expect to finish the letter 'T' tonight - and before Budapest I'm certainly through the alphabet.

Edited by Iversen on 13 May 2013 at 2:26pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3269 of 3959
16 May 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged 
RO: Este comun pentru muzeele să interzice pe oaspeților să ia propriile fotografii în colecțiile - mai ales în muzee de arta si castele și alte instituții culturale de clasa, a mai multe ori este permis săo face în muzeele tehnice și științifice - desigur, fără bliț. Și pentru mine, rezultatul este că interesul meu în artă este în scădere, deoarece eu sunt obosit de loc de această atitudine neprientenoasă. Cu toate acestea nu am putut omite castelul Schönbrunn din itinerariu meu aici, și fără fotografii am rezignat și cumparat un ghid. Dar desigur în limba română, nu aleman, hehe. Și sunt de fapt foarte mulțumit cu el, pentru că mi-a spus despre camere în aproximativ aceeași ordine ca un vizitator să le văd, astfel încât să pot revigora memoria mea a palatului citind cartea această. În contrast al meu ghid în limba rusă pentru Palatul Ducal de Venezia este o mizerie, deorace spune despre istorie și stil și artiști celebri, dar nu spune despre palat din perspectiva unui vizitator. Dacă nu ar fi fost în rusă mi-ar fi văzut ca o investiție proastă. Nu am reușit încă să citească ghidul meu de peșteri Postojna în limba slovenă, și ghidul muzeului de Correr de Venezia în limba Italiană se află, de asemenea, în așteptarea. Am ajuns la sfârșitul alfabetului rus, ura. Și mâine mă duc la Budapesta să întâlnesc cu umilință cei mai famosii nume ale comunității învățarea limbilor străine.

I hate museums that without further ado prohibits the guests from taking their own photographs (of course without flash). However here in Europe this unfriendly attitude is more common among art museums than in technical and scientific museums, and the result is that my interest in art and art museums is going steadily downhill. However there are places which you must visit even though you hate and despise their vile managements, and Schönbrunn is one of those places. So left without photographs you are tempted to buy their postcards, which probably is part of the plan (but some unfriendly museums don't even sell postcards). I bought one card depicting four rooms .. plus a guidebook in Romanian. And it is actually quite good, because it describes the palace from the perspective of a visitor who follows the prescribed route through the treasures. In contrast my Russian guide to the Ducal Palace of Venice is almost useless because it just gives a background and some VIP names from past times, but I can't use it to remind me of the hour or so I spent in the hallowed halls because it doesn't follow a precise route through the rooms. I haven't read my big fat Italian guide to the Correr museum museum yet, and my guide in Slovenian to the Postojna Caves also lies waiting for better times. Tomorrow I'll leave for Budapest, where I expect to humbly sit and and listen to the great names of contemporary polyglottery. Hopefully they won't stick to English all the time - I hope the event will develop into a total linguistic chaos!.

Edited by Iversen on 17 May 2013 at 8:32am

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tarvos
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 Message 3270 of 3959
16 May 2013 at 5:58pm | IP Logged 
Sunt fericit că ai scris românește aici. Spune-mi, te rog: ai plani pentru călători în
România după ședința poligloților?
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montmorency
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 Message 3271 of 3959
16 May 2013 at 8:42pm | IP Logged 
iversen wrote:

I hate museums that without further ado prohibits the guests from taking their own
photographs


Sketchpad and pencil?
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Iversen
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 Message 3272 of 3959
17 May 2013 at 8:30am | IP Logged 
Sketchpad and pencil would not be as efficient and quick as photos, and besides it would be difficult to find a posture where you wouldn't be pushed around in places which are so full of guests as for instance Schönbrunn.

RO: Am considerat de mulți itinerar, cum am avut să-și planific călătoria mea la Budapesta. Ceea ce a decis afarul penru mine a fost că Ryanair a un traseu la Veneția de Billund la Jutland, aproape de domiciliul meu, și ma costat doar aproximativ 30 € pentru a zbura acolo. In plus, nu trebui să-m ridice devreme sau rămâne peste noapte în apropiere de aeroportul. Am considerat să călătorească de la Ljubljana la Zagreb și inpoi prin Beograd în România, dar traseul meu actual a fost mai scurt și simplu, și e prea mult timp de când am vizitat Graz și Viena. Și Ryanair zboară mă acasă la Billund în Danemarca imediat după conferința. Dar cu siguranță eu va vizita România din nou.



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