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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3929 of 3959
16 August 2015 at 6:22pm | IP Logged 
ENG: I have just read the thread about Old English, and that made me have a look at a my personal bookshelf where I have one of the old Teach Yourself books standing, "Old English" by Leslie Blakeley. I have used it in an usystematic way to acquire some passive skills in tha Anglosaxon language. And I like it, because there are both fairly systematic grammatical information and authentic prose texts. Of course Beowulf is the towering masterpiece in that language, but starting out with that would be like learning Latin through the Eneid or Ancient Greek through the Iliad. The prose texts are mostly annals written in a terse and not very exciting style, but those chosen by Blakeley are not too bad.

FR: Mais pendant ctte fin-de-semaine j'ai aussi lu les premières leçons d'un autre manuel d'un vieille langue, et dans ce case le grec ancien: les "40 leçons pour découvrir le grec ancien" par J.le Maoult (avec la collaboration de A.Quesemand (2007), et je ne l'aimai point. On sent vraiment que l'author aime cette language et qu'elle veuille tellement que nous l'aimerions aussi, mais pour faire l'ancien grec moins intimidante pour l'étudiant débutant elle mêle les informations étymologiques de mots empruntés en français et des informations rudimentaires sur la grammaire et parfois aussi sur des mots concrets avec des exercises dont il peut être difficile de voir pourquoi elles sont placées çà et pas là. Il se peut que cette structure convienne aux besoins et préférences de certains étudiants, mais pour moi c'est un pêle-mêle d'informations où j'ai devrait faire un effort herculéen pour extraire les resenseigments concrets dont j'ai besoin.

Mais hélas, cette manière d'écrire des manuels de language est devenue la norme. Et c'est une bonne raison pour utiliser une combination de grammaires et dictionares et textes bilingues plutôt que d'investir son argent dans un manuel moderne.


Edited by Iversen on 17 August 2015 at 6:26pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4839 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3930 of 3959
17 August 2015 at 7:08pm | IP Logged 
I have now read most of the "Wetenschap in Beeld" which I bought in Belgium. There is one article in it which is downright scary, namely the one about virus attaks on fridges, cars, pace makers and other machines with an inboard computer that can be updated wirelessly. However if it can be updated wirelessly then it can also be hacked if it isn't protected by encryption and a strong password - and few of these apparatuses are secured in any way. But just read this:

In december 2013 (...) ontedeckte het IT-beveiligingsbedrijf Proofpoint een gigantisch 'zombieleger', een zogeheten botnet, met ruim 450.000 apparaten die hackers hadden overgenomen. (...) het bijzondere aan het zombieleger was dat circa een virde van de gehackte apparaten bestond uit internetrouters en televisies bij mensen thuis. Bovendien bevatte het zombieleger zelfs een enkele intelligente koelkast, (..."

'Smart fridges' (van het type dat zelfs bestelt jouw melk thuis als je de laatste droesem hebt gedronken) zijn nog zeldzaam, maar met de misplaatste urgentie die onverantwoordelijke mensen hebben om dit soort dingen jouw koelkast zal binnenkort frequent genoeg zijn om ïnteressant voor de hackers te zijn. Ze zijn al goed op weg om de 'smart' telefoons in zijn controle te krijgen.

Het tijdschrift bevat ook vele andere artikelen, zoals een van de weinige mensen die blijkbaar immuun voor HIV zijn. HIV valt aantal zogenaamde APOBEC-cellen aan die gewoonlijk fungeren als verkenners van het immuunsysteem, maar bij enkele mensen zijn deze cellen in staat schaden te veroorzaken in het eigen DNA van de HIV-vira met als gevolg dat er geen infectie word. Het blijkt volgens deze onderzoekers ook dat er al 8% viraal DNA in het DNA is uit eerdere epidemieën.

Ik word commentaren geven op nog een paar artikels uit het tijdschrift in niet-HTLAL.

Edited by Iversen on 17 August 2015 at 11:11pm

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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 3931 of 3959
17 August 2015 at 8:34pm | IP Logged 
Do you know what I like about this place? That there is room for both me and you with our radically different
styles, and for the starry eyed teenager who comes to learn his first language.

I love your log - someone has to give this place a more erudite feel :-)
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Iversen
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9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3932 of 3959
18 August 2015 at 1:02pm | IP Logged 
Мы определенно видим мир по-другому, и поэтому наши сообщения здесь становятся отличны. Если бы мне пришлось,вероятно я мог нарисовать план города Суздаля. Я знаю, где автобусная станция находится, где библиотека, где храмы, монастыри,дворец, и почему маленький деревянный храм в середине поля является столь важным.Я также помню этот исторический город одетый в снегу (снег упал накануне), и был очень красивым видом.

Но у меня не было каких-либо длинные разговоры с жителями города - конечно, не на русском языке (в то время это было еще далеко), но и не на английском языке. Некоторые люди ориентированной на человека, а другие факт-ориентированной.



Edited by Iversen on 18 August 2015 at 6:23pm

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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 3933 of 3959
19 August 2015 at 12:10am | IP Logged 
And that would of course be you who are people oriented and me who would be fact oriented, right :-)
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Iversen
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4839 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3934 of 3959
19 August 2015 at 10:48am | IP Logged 
Well, maybe I should have used another word than факт - or I should have described you as people-fact oriented and myself as other-things-fact oriented...

As an illustration of my non-human priorities I would like to mention that my reading-on-the-bus-back-home-from-work from the last couple of days has been the old Teach Yourself Old English which I mentioned earlier in this thread. It is not very likely that I'll have a discussion in Old English anytime soon, but I want to be able to read the language more fluently even though it has been stone dead for almost 1000 years.

Edited by Iversen on 19 August 2015 at 2:13pm

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4839 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3935 of 3959
19 August 2015 at 2:20pm | IP Logged 
This is my message no. 9000
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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4839 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3936 of 3959
20 August 2015 at 7:37pm | IP Logged 
I have put the old Teach Yourself Old English into my bag for on-the-bus-back-home-from-work reading, and it is actually nice to get some things settled about that language. For instance there is a dual for personal pronouns 1. and 2. person, and guess what it is.. Nom, acc, gen, dativ 1. person dual: wit, unc, uncer, unc, and 2. person dual: git, inc, incer, inc. German speakers and learners will notice with glee the forms of the 1. person dual, but how did they end up as regular plural forms in German?

Shortly after there is a discussion of relative pronouns and relative constructions, and they are quite interesting. There are 5 different possibilities:

1) using the invariable "Þe", whose Þ is rendered as 'th' in Modern English - but "the" can of course not be used as a relative pronoun

2) using a demonstrative pronoun, as in "her feng to rice Osric, Þone Paulinus ær gefullode" (loosely translated in the book as "in this year came to the throne Osric, whom Paulinus had baptized", but hyperliterally by me as "here got the kingdom Osric, the-one Paulinus earlier baptized". PS: the book uses macrons above long vowels (like ā and ē), but they were hardly ever used in authentic texts so I'll dispense with them here).

3) a demonstrative pronoun plus the invariable "Þe". Well, in this is really only is "Þe" plus the following sentence that is a relative clause, which is attached to a demonstrative pronoun. This also raises the question whether the thing which starts with a demonstrative really is a relative clause. In German the verb jumps to the end of the sentence if it is a subordinate clause, but I really don't know whether there is an equally clear indicator in Old English.

4) "Þe" plus a personal pronoun, as in "butan he hæbbe ðæs biscopes gewitnesse, Þe he on his scriftscire sie" ('unless he has the testimony of the bishop, in whose diocese he is'). The book has "ðe" insted of "Þe" in this sentence, but that is probably spelling error. The funny thing about this construction is that it illustrates the kind of 'crumbling' relative constructions which I described in my lecture at the Berlin Polyglot Gathering earlier this year (ps: not on Youtube*). In a 'normal' relative construction the relative pronoun serves both as conjunctional and as something else in the sentence, but there are non-Indoeuropean languages where this isn't the case, and even in Indoeuropean language you find more examples of this than you might expect (even in Danish, where ".., som at der .." is universally used and universally condemned). And here we have a language where the examples apparently are too numerous to be ignored.

5) nothing at all, as in "on Þys geare gefor Ælfred, wæs æt Baðum gerefa" ('in this year died Alfred, (who) was sheriff at Bath'). This is permitted in Modern English, but NOT with subjects as in the example.

I have also come so far in the book that there are fairly long text samples (with a translation in an appendix). Today I read the biblical fable about the Prodigal Son while waiting for my food at a Chinese restaurant.



PS * The reason that this lecture isn't on Youtube is that the team who transferred the lectures to Youtube asked me to send all the slides - but I would have had to cut out some slides and revise others because I had changed the focus of my speech during the preceding months. And then time slipped and nothing was done. Besides only around twenty ultra-nerds were present in the lecture room, and that would look like a miserable fiasco on the screen

The reason that my second lecture about wordlists in Catalan isn't on Youtube is that one camera was broken that day and therefore it wasn't recorded - the mishap had to hit someone.

My third improvised mini-lecture on tardigrades and language maintenance in Esperanto wasn't recorded because mini-lectures weren't recorded - and my Esperanto was rather rusty in May so I don't mind in the least that it wasn't documented in its delapidated state..

Edited by Iversen on 31 August 2015 at 10:13am



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