Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

  Tags: Multilingual
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
3959 messages over 495 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 122 ... 494 495 Next >>
GoldFibre
Diglot
Senior Member
Kuwait
koreaninkuwait.com
Joined 4120 days ago

467 posts - 472 votes 
Speaks: English*, Korean

 
 Message 969 of 3959
17 June 2009 at 4:03pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I don't see the need for "o balang", because "balang" apparently also means grasshopper or locust

I asked my native speaking coworker about it and she said she is only familiar with balang, and had to look up luktón. She also said she doesn't know why they used both words together. So you were right to be suspicious!
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4844 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 970 of 3959
17 June 2009 at 8:43pm | IP Logged 
I know that there are Filipinos all over the world and not least in the Arab world, - but I couldn't ask a native speaker myself, so thanks for doing it. The thing that worries me most here is not that the same animal is mentioned twice in the original sentence, but that your coworker knew balang and not luktón. Unfortunately these dictionaries don't indicate whether a certain term is common or not, - you have to read a lot of genuine texts and listen to a lot of native speakers to get a gut feeling for that, and I'm far from that stage right now.

By the way, congratulations to yourself for keeping a log with more than 500 posts and more than 60.000 views. And for for getting the creative idea of learning Korean in Kuwait!

Edited by Iversen on 17 June 2009 at 10:44pm

1 person has voted this message useful



GoldFibre
Diglot
Senior Member
Kuwait
koreaninkuwait.com
Joined 4120 days ago

467 posts - 472 votes 
Speaks: English*, Korean

 
 Message 971 of 3959
17 June 2009 at 10:05pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Unfortunately these dictionaries don't indicate whether a certain term is common or not, you have read a lot of genuine texts and listen to a lot of native speakers to get a gut feeling for that, and I'm far from that stage right now.

I try to stick to modern reading material in Korean for the same reason. At least in this case if there are grasshoppers on the menu you won't have any doubt what is going to be on your plate!
1 person has voted this message useful



josht
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4587 days ago

635 posts - 857 votes 
Speaks: English*, German
Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch

 
 Message 972 of 3959
17 June 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I wonder whether others have seen this kind of dictionary for other languages, because it seems to me to be a valuable addition to the arsenal of learning tools.   


One for Russian immediately comes to mind: A Phrase and Sentence Dictionary of Spoken Russian. You can take a look at it here, via the Look Inside! feature:
Amazon page for Dictionary of Spoken Russian
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4844 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 973 of 3959
18 June 2009 at 9:51am | IP Logged 
The book mentioned by Josht does indeed look like it has the same structure. I also have a book at home about Russian root words, where the words are illustrated by sentences with translations (but the book unfortunately totally lacks morphological and syntactical indications, such as the gender of nouns and aspect of verbs so I won't promote it by name here).

Since yesterday I have worked some more with my Tagalog dictionary, and I have the problem that not all the words used in the phrases also are used as lexemes. Sometimes I can find them in my other dictionaries, but they are all fairly small (including the Tagalog-Italian dictionary I bought in Milan), and presumably I could find them on the internet. But then I would lose the conveniency of an all-in-one solution. So I use the simple rule: skip the offending words and concentrate on learning the rest first.

For authors out there who might want to write this kind of dictionaries I will sketch the differences between an ordinary dictionary with examples and the kind of book under discussion here:

Ordinary good dictionary (OGD): many words without examples
Phrase dictionary (PD): no words without examples

OGD: mostly only the pertinent parts of the examples
PD: complete, but short and simple sentences

OGD: examples chosen because they are idiomatic and can't be guessed
PD: examples chosen that illustrate typical unproblematic (i.e. unidiomatic) uses of the words

OGD: translations of examples into idiomatically correct base language
PD: literal translations (hyperliteral translations would be overkill if the sentences are simple enough)

OGD: in principle all words in common use of the target language
PD: relatively few words because of the space requirements, but all words used in the sentences should also be found as lexemes

OGD and PD: A reasonable amount of morphological and syntactical information

We have had many debates between people who need a context and those who can learn words directly from dictionaries, but these books (which I for want of a better word call "phrase dictionaries") should be useful for both categories of learners. So why aren't there more of them?


Edited by Iversen on 18 June 2009 at 11:39am

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4844 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 974 of 3959
18 June 2009 at 11:39pm | IP Logged 
CAT: Vaig passar part de la nit vegint alguns podcasts, entre altres un program en català de una sèrie anomenada "Espai de terra" Dins daquest program particular es visita la petita ciutat Tossa de Mar que jo també he visitat fa un més, peró aqui per desgràcia solament amb una curta caminada en la vella ciutat enmurallada. Hi havia també una entrevista amb un farer, que ha escrit un llibre sobre els fars a través de l'història. Hi ha tota una una sèrie d'aquests programes, on es visita diferents llocs destacant diversos temes. Quan ja no tinc cable català, es necesari trobar altres fonts...

PORT: Além disso, visitei o site de TV Ciência - mas não havia nenhum programa em direito! Caramba - este foi uma das melhores fontes de filmes relevantes em Português para mim, e por isso espero veramente que ela não seja fechada para sempre (como por exemplo TV Beira e o Museums-TV holandês). Tuve alguns vídeos no arquivo, por exemplo de Timor-Leste e de Angola, mas não foi o que eu tinha vindo alli para ver. Queria ver o programa ao vivo pois isto é tem que vir os novos vídeos no arquivo. E não foi.

-----

I have watched a bit of Catalan tonight at the homepage of TV3, where there is a series called "Espai terra". In this particular video of about 15 minuts duration the presenters visited the small coastal town Tossa de Mar (at Costa Brava), which I visited myself about month ago. There was also an interview with a lighthouse keeper who has written a complete history of lighthouses through the ages (including the one at Alexandria, that was declared one of the wonders of the world), - but also a short walk through the old valled city (too short).

Besides I have visited the site of TV Ciência for the first time this month, but ... no running program on the screen. That's bad, because this was one of my preferred sources for spoken Portuguese about relevant subjects. There were some videos in the archive, mostly from East-Timor and Angola, but that was not what I came for. I hope sincerely that it hasn't died or become an undead zombie like TV Beira or the Dutch Museums-TV AVRO.


Edited by Iversen on 19 June 2009 at 10:07am

1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4844 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 975 of 3959
19 June 2009 at 1:17pm | IP Logged 
LAT: In tempo prandiis hodie iter Ephemeridem legi, et illic ceteros nomines geographicos inveni qui mihi gaudebant per Niger certe Niger stat, sed nomen novus sententia acceptus est qui certe apta est. "Sierra Leone" in modo logico quam "Mons Leonis" vertitur. "The Netherlands" quam "Batavia" datur, id quod praecedentem historicam habet, et nationes linguiis Romaniciis plerumque sub nominibus antiquiis nominantur: Gallia (aut Francia), Italia, Hispania, Lusitania (vel Portugallia) - etiam Graecia nominem suam antiquam habet.

In Vicipedia lista nominiis nationiis mundi datur. Hic lego quod Natio mea Dania "(vel Cimbria classica)" appelatur - sed istud non recte est quia "Cimbria" vere solum partem Jutlandicae indicat, - in sermo danorum "Himmerland". Vecinus noster "Germania vel Res Publica Foederata Germania" nominatur, vecinu suus "Helvetia vel Confoederatio Helvetica", et nominibus antiquiis tamen habent Irlandia vel Hibernia, Romania vel Dacia, Ucraina vel Sarmatia, Roxolania antiqua. Quid " Ruthenia Alba" significat? Belarus! Et in Asia sunt Tadzikistania vel Sogdiana, Turcmenia vel Saccaea, Uzbecia vel Bactria. "USA" clare "Civitates Foederatae Americae" sunt, et cetera. Ars termonologiae non semper materia sicca est!

* (tamen videte "Uups! - et Urbe" ubi papa irreverentisseme seminudus demonstratus est - istud non Mahometi ausus sint!)

-----

During my lunch break I read once again the excellent Latin news'paper' Ephemeris, and between articles about global economy, the plights of African agriculture and demonstrations in Teheran I noticed some funny country names: "Mons Leonis" for Sierra Leone, Batavia for Holland etc.

To learn more about this corner of Neolatin terminologi I checked Vicipedia (the Latin Wikipeda") and found a list of proposed country names. Of course there are nations outside Europa that never had a name in antiquity, but sometimes there apparently was a name in the Middel ages, - though it puzzles me that the Philippines can be called "Prasodum Insulae antiquae", - but the Spaniards may have used this name in the last years of Latin reign within the cartographical community. Other names suggest some interesting historical information which only specialists know about, such as "Saccaea" for Turkmenistan.

And when you have chosen a suitable name for a country (or two alternatives, as in the case of Germania vel Res Publica Foederata Germania"), then you may still have a problem with the adjectival form and the name for its inhabitants, which in the case of Germany often are called "Teudisci" (with a reference to a tribe that presumably passed through the country more than two thousand years ago, - som people have long memories!). The study of nomenclature is not always as dry as you might imagine!



Edited by Iversen on 19 June 2009 at 1:47pm

1 person has voted this message useful





Fasulye
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2012
Moderator
Germany
fasulyespolyglotblog
Joined 3988 days ago

5444 posts - 6003 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto
Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 976 of 3959
19 June 2009 at 7:37pm | IP Logged 
EN: After a very productive study week Turkish, I had already finished my pensum for this week and at my study time at 6:30 in the morning I got the chance to read the American version of "National Geographic". There is also a German version on sale here, but - of course - I want to read this magazine in a foreign language. In this issue there are two very interesting articles. One is called "Ice Baby, Secrets of a frozen Mammoth". This baby mammoth apprears to be in very good shape and is the object of all kinds of paleontologic examinations. And the other interesting article is called "Staking claims to the Arctic Ocean" and deals with the 5 countries USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Russia, which claim possession of the Arctic territory.The melting of the north pole ice cap makes the possession of this region with its hidden mineral resources economically attractive. This is quite a relevant topic where political and economical targets are mixed with scientific exploration. Included in this magazine there was a large map of the North Pole region, which now decorates my wall.

ESP: Cxi-verspere estas tempo por la dinosauxroj, cxar ARTE elsendos programon pri kombatantaj dinosauxroj en la kreto-tempo, mi cxerte volas denove rigardi la elsendon. Lundon mi havos mian naskigxtagon, sed mi jam festos gxin morgaux.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 19 June 2009 at 7:38pm



1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 3959 messages over 495 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.7031 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2019 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.