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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3865 of 3959
25 April 2015 at 1:10am | IP Logged 
EN: As you can see above I have been visiting Sweden for a couple of days, and then I went Copenhagen to spend a few days with my mother and sister. I returned home Thursday evening, worked the whole day Friday (where I found 115 e-mails in my inbox) and spent the evening ordering the photos from my trip so that I can present an overview to my family tomorrow. But... luckily I had some transport time and some evenings available for study during the trip so I did actually get through some texts in other languages this week. And during the time in Sweden I spoke of course Swedish - I have come to the point where I find it weird to speak Danish over there. I'm sure the result is atrocious, but it seems to be understandable and that's enough.

SW: Jag köpte bara ett populärvetenskapligt tidskrift: "Allt om Vetenskab" (04-2015), såna tidsskrift är ju inte billiga. Det innehåller blant annat en artikel om månen, var den spännande saga om skapandet av månen från skräp sparkat ut av jorden genom en katastrofal kollision berättas igenn. Den period då jorden bombarderades av föremål från yttre rymden ligger 4,5 miljarder år bakåt - förmodligen var den instabila situationen i solsystemet ett resultat av resonans mellan Saturnus och Jupiter. Men det är över nu, och på tiden sedan rabatten har månen stabiliserats och saktade jordens rotation från 5-6 timmar till nuvarande 24 timmar. Och artiklen föreslår att kollisionen faktisk fjernade mycket vatten från jorden - problemet har annars varit att förklara var planetens vatten kom ifrån (kometer har föreslagits).

Dessutom finns det i bladet en serie om de tio mest berömda tillfälla av fusk, däribland "Piltdown-människan". I 1912 'fann' Charles Dawson en skalle och ett käkben med flera tänder, som hann tilskrev en utdöd människoart, som genom andra fossil fra fundorten kunna tidsfästas till at vara 500.000 år gamalt. Problemet är att fyndet var sammensatt av en färgat människoskalla, en orangutankäka og tilslipade schimpanständer. Skandalen består i att dett dröjade endå till 1953 innan två forskare fik möjlighet att undersöka fyndet og bevisa at det var fusk. Och varför? Formotligan fordi man väntade et missing link med stor hjärnkapasitet, och det fikk man med Piltdown-fyndet. Sedan dess har man emellertid funnit masser av fossil, och de har klart vist at den opretta gången kom miljontals år innan de stora hjärnor. Det ser ut till at människolinjan skiltes fra schimpanzernes för ca. 7 miljoner år sedan, med skiljevägen markerat av arter såsom Sahelanthropus tchadensis och Orrorin tugensis som inte liknade varken moderna schimpanzer/bonoboer eller människor. Det nästa led i kedjan på vor sida af släktträdet var Austrilopithecinerna (inklusive Lucy, Mrs. Pless och Dart's baby), som gik upprätt, men hade pyttesmå hjärnor. I synnerhet de robuste variantena lär ha vårit rett ubegåvade.

Vem er ägentlig typen på människoartan? I en tredja artiklen sägs det att Linné vägrade utpeka en särskild individ, och ene av alla arter står det därför inte ett typmänniska i sprit på ett museum. Det tycks några moderna biologer är ett problem, og William Stearn föreslo därfor i 1959 att betrakte Linné själv som typexemplar. Om det inte kan finnas ett tidigare förslag, är detta förslag bindande på grundval av de vanliga vetenskapliga normer. Tyvärr har den annars välanskrevna paleontolog Bob Bakker förfuskat diskussionen genom att föreslå den amerikanska dinosauriejägaren Edward D. Cope. Men Cope er inte ett brukbart förslag då han inte ens var levande då Linné kategoriserade människoarten i sitt system, och desutan er alltså Stearn's förslag tidigare - og som vi vet fra Brontosaurus-diskussionen, är det tidigare förslag alttid det gilltige i vetenskaplig nomenklatur. Så mot sin vilja är Carl von Linné alltså formellt själv blit udsedd til typexemplet på en människa!

Edited by Iversen on 25 April 2015 at 1:44am

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Iversen
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 Message 3866 of 3959
26 April 2015 at 11:49pm | IP Logged 
I have spent the weekend with my family, and apart from some 60-70 Greek words on a wordlist I haven't done any serious study. Well, watching TV might count, but it is not something new. The most unexpected thing that has happened from a linguistic perspective was a telephone call from a fellow (Danish) Esperantist. But after it I realized that I had wasted an opportunity to switch to a target language. We did discuss features in Esperanto like Zamenhof's decision to avoid an analytic past tense - which I see as a reflection of his Slavic background - and also the congresses, including the upcoming one in Lille. But we should have been speaking about these things in Esperanto.

I have been thinking about Catalan words I might need for my wordlist speech in Berlin, but time is running out, and I have done preciously little preparation. I have spent too much time on scanning (and recomposing!) music this spring, and I have been busy with a project on my job, but to be properly prepared I guess I have to be do some targeted vocabulary training.
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Iversen
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 Message 3867 of 3959
29 April 2015 at 6:34pm | IP Logged 
There may be fewer updates to this thread for some time - I remember from last year that the computers at the polyglot gathering location were so slow that they almost were unusable. On all other points I look forward to the event.
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Iversen
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 Message 3868 of 3959
05 May 2015 at 9:41pm | IP Logged 
Hin poliglotta gathering estas slut maintenant, ock εγώ estoy сейчас w Polsce - aðeins fordi at another partoprenanto het mihi verteld that some &^&^%$#%^&&^%&&** deutsche treinbestuurders eerder wanna streikan than passe il suo Arbeit. If eg questo nie entendu heeft nie, ego might gewees siddende dalam Βερολίνο...

Het was d'ailleurs bardzo успешан okazaĵ - weel, lige krom my rotten irriterende Esperanto, which као и venjulega σταμάτησε να bekerja jedes mal jeg lo necessitava untuk conversations.

PO: Jestem teraz w Poznaniu. Kupiłem program dla dwóch ogrodów zoologicznych, jednu pizzu Siciliana, mój bilet pociąg do Łodzi i inne rzeczy w języku polskim, ale nie jestem w pobliżu do mówić polsku biegle. Ale Polacy - poza w hotelach - nie mówi po niemiecku lub angielsku lub duńsku bardzo dobrze. Jest to dla mnie bardzo dobre - jas muszę spróbować mój minimalny polsku!

EN: I am going to write more about my impressions from the polyglot gathering later, but right now there are people behind me who are waiting for the computer, and I'll give them a chance to get in touch with the world too. (PS I prepared the Polish bit above in my room - otherwise the queue behind me would have been much longer!)

Edited by Iversen on 05 May 2015 at 9:45pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 3869 of 3959
06 May 2015 at 5:26pm | IP Logged 
GER: Ich bin wieder zu Hause aus Polyglottingen angekommen und benutze zur Zeit meinen "Notcomputer" (= Laptop mit defekter Festplatte + Linux DVD) und gehe 1-2 Stunden in die Mediothek und benutze einen oeffentlichen Computer dort. Deine "Illustreret Videnskab" - Zeitschriften habe ich bisher nur oberflaechlich durchgeblaettert, eine ernsthafte Lektuere kommt spaeter. Auf dem Gathering hatte ich mir ein aktuelles Woerterbuch Esperanto - Englisch - Esperanto von John C. Wells (aus dem Jahre 2010) gekauft und das IT - Woerterbuch "Komputeko" Englisch - Esperanto. Von "Teach Yourself" werde ich mir das Lehrbuch "Norwegian" bestellen. (Ich verzichte hiermit auf jegliches "Dabbling" in einer neuen Sprache!)

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 06 May 2015 at 5:39pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3870 of 3959
06 May 2015 at 8:05pm | IP Logged 
OK, update forthcoming! The keyboard here is actually an English one. Yesterday I asked a member of the staff how they could survive without the ł. Apparently they click the l and some other key, but I can't remember which one so I use the one at lexilogos. My next stop will be Łódź, which is pronunced something like Woodzj, so I definitely need a couple of extra letters to get by here.

Friday I first listened to Vladimir Skultety, who told us that if you want to trick is to behave and look like a native speaker. If you can do that you can allow yourself a few mispronunciations, but drop the the gestures and you'll get the axe.

After that I had planned to learn about native language of North America, but room 3 was full so instead I sneaked into room 2 to listen to Conor Clyne explaining how native Anglophones can avoid being talked to in English. OK I'm not a native Anglophone so I really shuldn't have been there at all, but my tactic is to postpone speaking the foreign languages until I can understand the answers, but after that I stick to the local language even if it ends with a twenty minutes long bilingual dialogue. Only if I feel that the other person is struggling, but proud to be trying I accept switching to English - and people in the tourist industry generally don't belong in that cathegory. Conor seemed to prefer a softer version where he laud the foreign language and culture and apologize for being stubborn .. but...

POR: Na parte da tarde eu me aventurei no mundo de Jimmy Mello do Brasil, e o seu método puramente oral era tão assustador como eu tinha pensado - fala do inicio e não escreva nada isto é totalmente o oposto do que eu quero fazer.

GER: Danach habe ich Astrid Stangl und ihre reizende österreichischen Mundart nochmals angehört, diesmal in einem Vortrag über Reiseleiter und Touristguides. Nur hätte ich es gern noch kompromissloser, und ich habe sie gefragt, ob sie nicht auch mal Touren auf purem Wienerisch anbieten könne.

SP: Vittorio dell'Aquila ha dado un resumen de todas las lenguas europeas, y mi impresión duradera es que los mapas lingüísticos que se puede hallar tienen lamentablemente poco que ver con los idiomas e dialectos que los indigenos aqui realmente hablan.

Saturday I first listened to Antonio Libertino on Language Learning and Guided Imagery. I had expected something about learning through images and pictorial association, but we got a feel-good lesson. It was a nice and friendly one in that category, but feel-good courses are just not my cup o'tea. The message is however OK - that you should imagine yourself as as you will be when you can speak your target languages perfectly and not as the wrretched poor thing you are at the beginning.

After that I listened to Richard Simcott, who as usual got into a dialogue with the listeners. He spoke about the life as a native speaker learning languages- but he did also mention the tactic of denying that he was English (a tactic Conor Clyne had mentioned, but dismissed the day before).

POR: Fabio Nogeira Fabio falou sobre o seu blog, que pretende ensinar os brasileiros Alemão no Português brazileiro, e ele deu um monte de exemples engraçadas de páginas bem sucedidas que receberam muitos gostos - muitas vezes por causa de references para a sociedade e mentalidade brasileira.

And finally I was flabbergasted by the scope of knowledge of 10 Asian languages displayed by professor Tim Keeley in the last lecture before dinner (well, in my case, before the fouraging expedition to the local Netto supermarket).

I think it was Saturday during the lunch brak that we had the Bahasa Indonesia and the esperanto challenges - with only two participants in each category. I was most interested in the first one, where three representatives from the Indonesian embassy were judges - i.e. more judges than candidates. Maybe it had been better to stick to one language per session and to accept people who had more than 100 hours of learning behiond them, then the candidates might have been more numerous. The first candidate in Indonesian spoke fairly well and as far as I could judge he had a good pronunciation, while the second read a long text from a manuscript. That is not what I understood by 'speaking so the first candidate was awarded the prize. I spoke briefly to the people from the embassy about on burning question: are there any books in Bahasa Indonesia about science in the Indonesian bookstores? When i visited Malaysia (Kuching and K.L. just about anything about science was in English, except the texts at the K.L. Sains center. They said Malaysia was different ... Ok, I hope so. It is sad when a whole segment of knowledge in a country is reserved for a foreign language.

At 15.00 the lightening speaks started (with 5 minutes for each).

EO: Mi havis problemojn kun mia esperanto: malgraŭ ke mi alportis kaj legis la UEA revuon mi ne povis vere uzi lingvon la unua tago, do mi aĉetis belan malgrandan vortaron el la DDR tempo kaj pensis pri manieroj por paroli pri la temo en Esperanto. Mi ekhavis la ideon kompari mian Esperanto lingvon kun tardigrado: malgrandaj, rezistaj animaloj kiuj estas preskaŭ neeblaj mortigi. Se vi ne nutros ilin simple transformas sin en mumioj. Sed aldonu iom da akvo, kaj ili vivigitos. Mi esperis ke mia Esperanto kondutus kiel tardigrado, sed ne - tio ne okazis.

Alia parolanto havis pli sorto kun Esperanto - estis rusina, kaj pro sia Esperanto funkciis kiel ilo kio faris aliajn lingvajn studojn eblaj. Mi scias certe, ke Esperanto estas la plej grava mondlingvo post Angla - almenaŭ inter poliglotoj - sed mi ne havis tempon por prepari min antaŭ la kunveno, kaj mi ne uzas Esperanton hejme.

After the lightning talks - too many to comment on here - I went to listen to Simon Ager's history of the writing systems of this planet. He is of course the man behind Omniglot and an authority on the subject.

Et le jour finissait avec la présentation très vivante de Sylvain Lelarge sur les choses bizarres que les gens écrivent dans les rues, soit comme noms de leur boutiques, soit quand il s'agit de faire les propriétaires de chien faire chier leurs chiens autrepart que sur votre trottoir.


Edited by Iversen on 06 May 2015 at 10:55pm

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Lundrum
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 Message 3871 of 3959
06 May 2015 at 9:29pm | IP Logged 
I wish I could've gone to the polyglot gathering this year (even if I definitely don't qualify
as a polyglot haha). From what you've seen, would you say it's something worth going to?
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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
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 Message 3872 of 3959
06 May 2015 at 10:05pm | IP Logged 
Definitely yes - and you don't have to know a lot of languages (but well, monolingual speakers are few and far between at such events)


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