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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3825 of 3959 04 March 2015 at 7:54pm | IP Logged |
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I wrote this yesterday, but then it disappeared. However I keep a copy of my multiconfused log, so here it is again:
I have not been logged in here since last week, due to 'maintenance works', but then found my way here through a Google search. I'm however not going to write a long story about my language learning for the last week or so. Since January I have been preparing things for a possible personal homepage, like the Guide to language Learning in its revised version, scans of my compositions, paintings, possibly some travelogues (preferably in the relevant languages) and links to my Youtube videos. But even though I have added the last couple of weeks to a wordfile I have got with the messages I have written in my own log thread, I can't see how this material can be reused - and I'm not only speaking about juridical considerations here. But in the case that HTLAL isn't reestablished I has to think about other communication channels. The irony is that during the apparent inaccessibility of the forum the spurious visitor numbers for this thread have passed 4.000.000. This strengthens my belief that the numbers are fake. (end of quote) Now the number is below 4.000.000 again, but who cares.. It would take a lot of time to write down everything I have read and done since HTLAL went on holiday, So let me just mention one minor detail, my bus-back-home reading today. SP: Durante mi reciente visita a Andalucía compré un número de revistad de ciencia popular, y acabo de terminar uno más de estas, "Muy Interesante". Esta es una revista con varias temas, peró de la misma familia que la "Muy Interesante" sobre las culturas desaparecidas de la qual he escrito algo en este hilo antes la recente semana de vacaciones en la tierra desconocida de HTLAL. Sabia Vds que la perimera revista cientifica nació el dia 05 de enero 1665? En este día Sieur de Hedovville (pseudonimo de Denis de Sallo) publico numero uno del "Journal des sçavans" en francés. En su secuela contemporánea también dice algo acerca de la oportunidad de aprender más rápido mediante la estimulación del cerebro con influencias magnéticas de una bobina posicionada afuera del cranio. Bueno, vamos a tener alguna evidencia sólida antes que yo compraré un gadget magnetico para aprender mas idiomas. Pero me recuerda a los experimentos donde se anestesió parte del cerebro de unas personas con estrimulación magnetica, y durante la experiencia estas personas recordaban las cosas de la misma manera como los 'savants' - sin las deformaciones y purgas que seguen con nuestra costumbre de pensar en lugar de la simple grabación. Edited by Iversen on 04 March 2015 at 8:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3826 of 3959 07 March 2015 at 4:39pm | IP Logged |
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SE: Данас Словенска дан. Само нови слушам ТВ станице из Црне Горе (РТЦГ), и ја сам слушао на ТВ из Хрватске и Сербие раније данас. Поред тога, ја сам поновио о 100 речи на листи речи. Ја користим древну француску <-> Српскохрвтског рјечника с латиница лика из Mедицинских Књиге, јер је много шире од моја Eнглески <-> Српски речника из Сазвежина, али то значи да променим кодни распоред, јер ја пишем српски ћириличних словима. И ја сам студирао чланке из Википедиа о врабаца и ластавица.
Today is a Slavic day. I have mostly been listening to languages from the Balkan area, I have studied articles about sparrows and swallows from the Serbian Wikipedia and I have done wordlist repetitions of about 100 Serbian words. Besides I finished Kauderwelsch' small booklet in German about Lithuanian last night. I can't cope with more new languages right now, but the things I saw in that book didn't look as exotic as I had expected. Even parts of the vocabulary were recognizable. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3827 of 3959 10 March 2015 at 7:04pm | IP Logged |
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Within the coming 24 hours this thread may pass 4 mio hits for the second time. Figures like that are normally reserved for cute animals and utter jerks trying to kill themselves on Youtube. Apart from that the last couple of days have been troublesome:
LA: Ego negotium ago pro associatione meae viatorium photocarthules in forma binaria ad situm interretionem suum transferre, et die saturni ego hoc faciens imaginem visifici computrali subito evanescere vidi. OK, cogitavi modo plectrum sui com carta adtactus esse, sed postea mihi non possibile fuit rursus visificum informationes ex computrali ostendere, at modo in modo televisifici agere vellet. Quid facere? Ego visificium veterum habebat - praecursor instrumenti novi - et cogitavi istud cum computralio jungens demonstrare posse an visificum aut computralis culpam habebat. Sed etiam secundum visificum nec imaginem ostendebat, et ego colligavi eventum photocartula contra plectrum circumfricta esse non pertinebat, et probabilius esset cartula graphica demori. Dua computralia vetusta perditaque habebat in domicilio meo, et ex computralio novo et computralio secondo chartulas graphicas extraxi ut novam contra veteram permutare. Sed chartual vetera non in computralio novo congruebat. NUNC quid facere. Ego iam praedicerat computralium novum emendum esset (de Windows VIII munitum, quod computralia honesta quam telephona mobilia praegranda praefoedoque dissimulat) sed dum nocte mihi enthymema mirabiliter advenit: quapropter visificium novem emebam? Scilicet quia defectivum erat? Tunc rursus medium noctis chartulam novam in computralium reddidit et cum visificio perquam vetusto junxi, et ... imaginem rursus vidi!! Nunc debeo computralium cum Windows opscaenibus VIII non statim emere debeo, et programmas meas vetustas - exempli gratia Word MMIII - conservare possum. Edited by Iversen on 11 March 2015 at 5:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4704 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3828 of 3959 11 March 2015 at 1:09am | IP Logged |
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But this is a very long log with a veritable wealth of good information. It's one of the
few things I read religiously here (I once did an archive trawl through the whole thread on a lazy day). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3829 of 3959 11 March 2015 at 5:44pm | IP Logged |
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But more than 10.000 visitors per day? I even doubt that so many members and non-members check in at HTLAL on a typical day - but the statistics don't show the actual numbers of visitors here.
Apart from that, my daily study time is somewhat diminished right now. I have a time consuming project at my job, and at home I'm in the process of scanning my old compositions and organize them into pdf files. Will anybody ever look at them, except myself? I doubt it (how many people can read an orchestral score right from the screen?), but it's about time that the job is done, and I don't care whether anybody will ever use the outcome. I have already finished doing the same thing with all my paintings, and all my holiday photos and postcards have been digitalized and organized into an intranet-like system I established years ago. I have a plan about rewriting (or translating) my old travelogues in the relevant languages instead of just Danish (although I'll have a problem with my visits to Asian countries) .. so all in all I'm fairly busy right now. And then I get slightly annoyed when my computer screen stops working on a Saturday evening - and does it in a sneaky way that lures me into thinking that the graphics card ('chartula graphica') has said goodbye to this valley of sorrows. With the result that I opened the entrails of both my newest computer ('computralis') and its defunct predecessor in order to get at the graphic cards, which then turned to be of different shape - no luck there! But as I wrote in yesterday's message it seems that the dusty old screen ('visificium') I had left in a corner still functions so I'll survive until I find the time to buy a new big fancy one. A good oldfashioned book on paper doesn't treat you like that! EO: Mi legis iujn esperanton la lastaj kelkaj tagoj. Mia buso-hejman-legado konsistas en la interreta revuo de la internacia Esperanto asocio UEA (de kiu mi estas membro ekde la granda monda universala kongreso en Kopenhago antaŭ kelkaj jaroj), kaj mi ĵus ricevis la duan bultenon por la venonta kongreso en Lillo - plejparte konsistanta el paroladoj je ekskursoj en kiuj mi ne planas partopreni (estas sufiĉe multekostaj kaj mi mem povas vojaĝi al Bulonjo-ĉe-maro o Brugxo o Gento en Belgio) ... sed estas skribita en Esperanto, kaj tio estas la grava afero. Mi memoras kun hororo kiel mi subtaksis la neceso de paroli Esperanton en Berlino pasintjare! CAT: També he enviat els meus resums de conferències a les persones darrera la gran reunió per a polyglots en Berlín, incloent un pdf amb imatges per a mostrar durant el meu discurs sobre oracions subordinades. Així que ara és massa tard per penedir-se - jacta est alea. Edited by Iversen on 11 March 2015 at 6:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4704 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3830 of 3959 15 March 2015 at 6:40am | IP Logged |
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Tengo una pregunta: como aprender el occitano? Me interesan los dialectos hablados en
Francia del Sur, pero ante hoy no he visto nunca una maniera eficiente para aprenderlo. Tienes algunas ideas que podes compartir conmigo? Es la misma maniera para aprender el catalán, no es así? Discúlpame para mi español, no lo hablo bastante bueno. RU: Насчет просмотров, я думаю, что здесь речь уже о уникальных посетителях не заходит. Скорее всего о простых просмотрах. То есть, если кто-нибудь тут заглянул раз 10 в день, то добивается 10 просмотров в число. Edited by tarvos on 15 March 2015 at 8:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3831 of 3959 15 March 2015 at 6:19pm | IP Logged |
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SP: Yo aprendí a leer (y sólo leer) el occitano antiguo por la poesia de los trocadors ('troubadours') - y, a veces esto era más como resolver rompecabezas que aprender una lengua viva. Más de veinte años después - y sin ninguna preparación - traté de leer un libro de Mistral, escrito en su propia ortografia, y lo encontré casi incomprensible. Sin embargo, la semana pasada hice una gran colección de impresiones del Wikipedia occitana (algo sobre los sumerios, su cultura y lengua, sobre calendarios en general y sobre el idioma arpitano), y me pareció tan fácil que ni siquiera me molesté en buscar versiones paralelas en otro idiomas. La clave podría ser que la ortografía en Wikipedia está más cercana a aquellas de la antigua poesía y del cataláno que lo que hay en el sistema experimental de Mistral.
Por ejemplo: "Aquestei terras foguèron ocupadas fa mai de 500 ans per lei sumerians".. ¿Facilísimo, no? El sonido de la lengua occitana es muy característico, pero està limitado lo que hay en la red - y yá no he encontrado un canal de televisión occitana. Pero escuché en 1990-1991 en varias ocasiones un disco donde los trovadores fueron introducidos con los mismos textos exactos que yo tenía en mi antología de poesia de mis años de estudio en los 70s. Y aún hoy está la voz que para mi representa este idioma en cultivo puro. En Youtube las canciones dominan, pero hay tambien algunas pocas lecturas, como por ejemplo Lo conte de Joan de l'Ors (18 minutos - y lento) y un Jornalet Occitan pronunciado de una manera todo natural. EDIT: No me gusta las canciones, pero en Youtube hay un video con el Clemencic Consort y los textos biograficos mencionados anteriormente. Desafortunadamente, es difícil hallar y escuchar las lecturas sin venir también a escuchar las horribles voces. Sólo apto para masoquistas. ENG: I have spent the weekend with my family. My mother and I moved a lot of brushwood (produced by the man who cut her thorn hedge, but didn't have time to remove the twigs). I also checked her mice situation. She has had a super mouse on her loft which somehow through magic or cleverness managed to remove the raisins from the traps we put up without releasing them. Then three weeks ago her bedroom suddenly stank so much of dead mouse that she had to sleep on a sofa in the sitting-room. Now the vile stench has subsided, and at my last check earlier today all the raisins were still there in the traps. Supermouse is dead... hurray hurray. But I wonder whether its last act of revenge was to die as close to the bedroom as possible. Her hornbeam won't get leaves for the next 7 weeks or so, so it is still possible to watch TV. I have watched BVN in Dutch and TVE in Spanish and other things - though I skipped baseball at Cubavision. Baseball??? When will Cuba be the 52. state in the USA? Edited by Iversen on 16 March 2015 at 5:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3832 of 3959 18 March 2015 at 8:05pm | IP Logged |
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CAT: En l'autobús-a-casa-de-la-meva-obra vaig llegir els últims dies l'article sobre Mesopotàmia de la Wikipedia occitana - un article sorprenentment llarga i informativa, que comença vers 700 AC amb els sumeris.. Els Sumeris era un poble sorprenent. De res van crear una alta cultura amb l'administració, l'escriptura i negocis. I ningú sap de on realment vénen, o per què era només ells els que van inventar el concepte de civilització i no pas llurs vecins. En algun lloc he vist que el seu nom potser hauria de significar 'aquells amb els caps fosques', però no és en aquest article. Potser és en un altre article (en grec), que també he ficat al meu faristol. I no, no era alguns estrangers des de l'espai que van venir i els van fer comprendre la utilitat de l'escriptura o l'art de la construcció de temples. Un fet poc simple: el temple en Eridu va ser de 280 m2, mentre que el temple D en Eanna era de 4000 m2 - el que suggereix que s'han anat practicant l'art de construir temples. El mateix es pot dir per l'escriptura: primer, que la van utilitzar només per als registres comercials, i després un dia algú va trobar que també podria ser utilitzat per informar sobre rei Gilgamesh i els seus projectes. La cultura sumèria s'assembla a aquella dels grecs en un punt: s'havia organitzat en ciutats-estat. Encara que en general hi havia una ciutat-estat dominant, els sumeris mai es organitzaran en un sol imperi bé soldada.
I sí, això hauria d'haver estat escrit en occità. Si hagués passat molt de temps buscant paraules i construccions en l'article, potser que jo podria haver dissenyat una bella comunicació en occità (és bastant similar al Francés i al Català), però l'Occità no és un dels idiomes en els quals jo tinc habilitats actives. Però jo no em podia tancar, doncs... OC: Lei Sumerians foguèron un pòble fòrça dessobtaire. De non tant ni quant acomencèt a enventar vilatges, culturas agricolas, cementèris, temples e un sistèm d'escritura. Mas d'aperaquí la segonda mitat dau sègle 2300 perdèron sa soberainetat al empèri d'Akkad. Lo estrany es que lei Akkadians contunhavan usant l'escritura cuneiforma sumeriana encara que sa lenga semitica estava fòrça diferent de la la lenga sumerian, que es supausat d'èsser un isolat. Un ministra dau rèi de Kish (Ur-Zababa) nomenàt Sargon prenguet lo poder del pòble akkadian e se foguèt fondator del primièr gran empèri conegut, quora ocupèt no solament las ciutats dels Sumerians, mas tanben el pais dels Elamites a l'èst e aquel dels Hurris al nòrd. Segon Wikipedia la casuda de l'empèri Akkad es supausada d'èsser lo fach de un pòple dels montanhas Zagros, leis Gutis. Gutis? Ièu coneissiái leis Elamites, leis Amoritas e d'autres póbles d'antan, mas no pas cap Gutis. Mas aquest poblé randol dels montanhas prenguét lo poder de Akkad e remplaçàron leis emperaires akkadians amb gutis, com per eissemble lo 'rèi' Gudea a Lagash. Mas leis Sumerians encara an dessobtat lo monde quora lo rèi Utu-Hegal d'Uruk vencét lo rèi Tirigan dei Gutis. Utu-H foguèt rebutat del governador de Ur, Ur-Nammu, mas la resulta foguèt encara un darrièr centenar quora leis Sumerians poguèren se regaudir coma un pòble independent. EN: Summary: I have now finished reading the long article about Mesopotamia from the Occitan Wikipedia (and I have still an article in Greek about a similar topic waiting for me on my notestand). It starts with the beginning, which happens to be the Sumerians - a remarkable people who more or less on their own invented civilisation, including the cuneiform writing system. They were organized in city-states like the Greek several thousand years later), and that was apparently a resilient system because it lasted for centuries upon centuries. They were defeated by the Akkadians, who spoke a Semitic language, but nevertheless adopted the writing system of the Sumerians, whose language is considered as an isolate. But the Sumerians got one more period, when some nomadic Gutis from the Zagros mountains beat the Akkadians, and then 100 years later a Sumerian king beat the Gutis. And as you can see it would take forever to write a summary that went all the way up to the Seleucids, Neobabylonians, Parthians and Saddam Hussein. Especially if I had to write it in Occitan.. Edited by Iversen on 20 March 2015 at 10:10am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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